That's exactly the opposite of what I suggested, msalama.

My thought was, that since it is the depth charge that spawns the BOLD, changing the textures for the DC effects so the last few frames of the explosion gradually changed into a bubble cloud would make using the bubble effect of the BOLD unnecessary, thereby solving the problem of having both effects triggered together.

Altering the effects textures for the BOLD, by your reasoning, would replace the explosion effects of the depth charge but that would again mean altering the DC effects anyways.

Since the BOLD is spawned by the depth charge, it just seems to follow that you'd want the explosion to come with the depth charge and not with the BOLD.

danurve, you do raise a point here with your questions.

With Albrecht's Improved ASW mod adding larger and more powerful depth charges as the war progresses, would a stronger and more effective BOLD be needed to reflect the greater disturbances generated by the explosions?

What about hedgehogs? Does each shell spawn a BOLD or just a single one that is longer lasting and influences a larger sphere?

It will certainly be interesting to see what AvH has in store. :yep:

Ok, Lord only knows I'm new at this so I might be incorrect in some of my observations but, here goes . . .

The Bolds are hard-coded controlled just as the depth charges, torpedoes and hedgehogs, to name a few. Those controllers affect how each of the ammunition types act and function. For the Bolds, it controls how long they last, how 'big' the bubble cloud (sonar target) is and how it visually appears. From what I can see the particle it uses has a lifetime of 10 seconds. Normally that means the effect lasts until the generator is 'destroyed' or the particle effect ends. With a lifetime of 10 seconds that should mean the Bold cloud would only last 10 seconds.

Obviously it doesn't. So I can only conclude that the amun_Bold controller keeps regenerating the particle effect throughout the lifetime of the Bold. I haven't experimented with it (yet) but it seems to me that if I modified the bubble cloud to show, first, the visible depth charge explosion then, as time passes, having that fade as it is replaced with the bubble cloud . . . that that cycle would continually repeat throughout the lifetime of the Bold. (Wiser and more learned heads here might know better).

So I don't think I can change the textures or particles for the depth charge explosion/bubble cloud creation that way. Unfortunately, I've tried twelve different ways of spawning this effect by starting off with seeing the visible depth charge explosion then having that spawn a Bold. And they all do work . . .

. . . except that, in doing so, they seem to break the amun_Bold controller function. The bubble cloud only lasts approximately 10 seconds, which is (not-so-coincidentally, I'm sure) the lifetime of the particle effect itself.

I could probably mess around with the particle effect and make it last for minutes, but the problem is that it's not the particle effect that influences how escorts 'hear' the bubble cloud: it's the amun_Bold controller that does so. It's not enough to just have things look right . . . they have to act right, too.

As to the ASW mod, they don't add larger and/or more powerful depth charges. The British Mark VII heavy and the US Mark 9 'fast-sinker' depth charges were designed to sink faster, not explode harder. In fact, the Mark 9 contained less explosive, not more. However, because they were exploding much deeper (we do dive deep to evade, don't we? ;) ) their shock was greater due to the increased pressure at those depths.

I'm not planning on having hedgehogs spawn a disruption bubble for several reasons. The reasons hedgehogs were so devastating were because if they didn't hit they didn't explode. And when they did hit . . . it usually only took one or two hits to cripple and sink a U-boat. They also contained one-fifth to one-sixth the amount of explosive that a standard DC did, which means they didn't create anywhere near as much a sound disruption. As well, hedgehogs were a 'look-ahead, throw-ahead' weapon: warships never lost sonar/sound contact when attacking. If they missed, they could still hear you. If they hit, well . . . they definitely knew where you were.

AvH

Hmmm...

A couple of suggestions - and yes, I've no SH3 modding knowledge whatsoever so if I'm being more of a hindrance than help here then please say so and I'll STFU straight away!

But anyway here goes while I'm still welcomed ;)

1) How about making a wrapper of some kind that just runs the effects sequentially so that they're not actually connected to each other?

2) How about somehow introducing a small delay between the effects?

PS. Rgt Graf.

Ok, so far this is looking pretty promising.

There doesn't seem to be any frame rate hit due to the bubble cloud effects resulting from the depth charges. I didn't think there would be, but it was nice to confirm! :p

While the escorts do have a tendency to 'work over' areas they've already depth charged, they also do not remain permanently fixated on that area, especially if there is more than one escort involved. They do keep searching for you and, quite often, will pick you back up again, especially if you aren't careful with your manuevering and speed. However . . .

It is much much easier to make an evasive manuever and creep away at silent running than before. Escorts have a much more difficult time picking you back up right after a DC attack, even with active sonar. Not impossible, mind you, just a lot more difficult.

You still have to be careful. You can't just go charging off into the sunset. But now at least you have a much better chance to wriggle free and creep off.

If anyone else is interested in giving this a whirl you can download the alpha test version of this on filefront. The password for the file is Bold.

AvH

http://files.filefront.com/depth+cha.../fileinfo.html

Thanks Albrecht, got it. Can I enable this mid-patrol?

Oops! Didn't see this. :oops:

Hmmmm . . . I think you could enable it mid-patrol, just not mid-game. You'd have to save then exit SHIII completely before enabling it. However, I'd strongly recommend enabling it between patrols, just in case.

Thanks Albrecht. Yah, I'll play it safe and only enable it after the patrol then... S!

OK, tried it once(!) so this is very very preliminary, but at least in the test mission included the Tribals _didn't_ stay and bomb their own explosions but went after me instead. They got scoobied, however, by the bubble clouds, and thus gave me an opportunity to slip away! So maybe this actually - *GASP* - works as intended, or at least something approaching that?

I have the mod enabled now during my fresh just-started Black Sea career & will report back when I've something more to tell.

S!

Thanks for the feedback!

So far (*knock on wood*) what you've observed seems to be universal: the noise disruption doesn't terminally 'lock-up' the escorts into fixating on a prior depth charged area, yet the noise disruption is usually enough to give you a good opportunity to sneak-and-creep away. You need to be silent running and at under 100 RPM to do that; then again, wasn't that what they had to do?

Unless anyone comes up with a negative performance report I think by the end of this week I'm going to move into beta development. I'll be adjusting the bubble cloud to resemble more of a spherical disturbance zone rather than the current Bold bubble cloud. I also hope to figger out how to get the visible explosion to appear, plus attach a sound file to the disruption zone. You'll actually be able to hear the churning bubbles from the hydrophones. Then again, if the noise disruption makes it hard for the escorts to hear you . . . that'll also make it hard for you to hear them! :p

Hmmm...

DCN has a conflict with the GWX Black Sea campaign files mod it seems. I had to enable the GWX mod last because otherwise there were no ships at all anywhere, and now I'm not sure if DCN works anymore :-? More testing is needed though - I've run only one patrol with it so far, so my impressions are anything but conclusive really!

But anyway, I bumped into this big convoy and sunk a troop transport and a tramp steamer. That for some incomprehensible reason got the escorts pretty badly pissed off :lol: and a game of cat-and-mouse w/ some DCing then ensued. I managed to slip away, but still seemed that the buggers got a reading on me as soon as I revved the engines even for a second or so...

Could be it's just me though? I'll anyway test some more and report back again later. S!

I don't understand why the DCN mod should have any conflicts with the GWX Black Sea campaign mod. It doesn't make any changes to campaign files. However, enabling the DCN mod before the Black Sea campaign shouldn't adversely affect the DCN mod . . . (*fingers crossed*)

Hiya Albrecht again!

OK, good to know. And yeah, those conclusions of mine were a bit hasty anyway, because now that I think of it a bit more there're a couple of things to note:

1) The destroyer was VERY near when he got those readings on me revving my engines after the explosions, so it's very much possible (and indeed plausible) that he still heard me!

2) He lost me later on when I went quiet again, and stayed where the last bubble clouds were. He didn't try to bomb them to smithereens however, but dropped one or two charges and stayed stationary and listened. Alas (for him) he never found us again, and thus promptly dashed away after the convoy he was supposed to be looking after in an hour or so...

So yep, I think I was a bit hasty with those impressions yesterday. The masking effect seems to be pretty subtle, though - but then again, isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

S!

PS: And yes, could very well be that those JSGME complaints (plus the missing boats in-game) actually stemmed from something else altogether, because they went away after disabling some _other_ mods and re-loading some of them in a different order. So this is what I've got loaded now:

(...assorted GWX option mods...)
RealWeatherFixMod
depth charge noise distruption_alpha
GWX - Black Sea Campaign Files Only

JSGME also complains of a file conflict between DCN and Increased ASW, BTW, but this I presume is something you're aware of ;)

S!

Nah, works as it should actually, I'm pretty sure of that now.

Thing is I intercepted another convoy just this morning, and the escorts actually did what they did in the test mission too, i.e. got a hunch of my whereabouts and threw some DCs - but the bubble cloud then fooled them a bit again and thus presented me with a chance of creeping away! Mind that they DO find you again if you push the pedal to the metal, bang kettles, loudly sing derogatory songs about Stalin / Churchill, etc. so not too much noise is still a must (as it should be).

So yeah, looking good indeed :)

PS. Do I spam too much here??? I've a habit of slipping pretty easily into a ramble mode and that sometimes shows :lol:

I don't think anyone would consider you as spamming. I certainly don't. (Then again, Doenitz only knows I have a tendancy to ramble myself! :oops: )

I do know about the file conflict between DCN and Increased ASW. That's because DCN replaces the depth charge effects of the ASW mod (then again, I'm pretty sure you'd get the same message whether ASW was enabled or not, as DCN still replaces the depth charge effects). The way to properly enable the full effects is to enable ASW before DCN, and with those being the last two mods you enable.

Good hunting! (and creeping away! :D )