Just to let some of you know my previous post was me being sarcastic. :lol:

Those of us in the UK who can still smell a rat know full well the government of the day will fiddle the figures bend them twist them inside out and do what ever it takes to put the government in a good light of day.

Just a side note here, our inflation is low according to the government so how is it the cost of eggs has risen 40% in the last six months?

That is because the statistics changed. Read how the cops changed the way things are reported. I can help you find an article on it you want. STEED posted one here at one point.

But i must commend you. You finially found something on the subject we are talking about instead of just giving an opnion. So lets lay it all out on the table and then we can have a discussion about it. We (I mean the subsim population in general) used to be great with discussions at subsim at one point, but lately, it feels like just a bunch of mud slinging.

Anyway, in response to that, I would like to commend the British people! Even when they had guns - no one ever shot anyone - it sounds like they are incredibly hospitable! I quote an article here:

That is incredibly low!

Anyway, guns have become a fasion statement for teeagers now. I quote:
Article here - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...on-507023.html

2003 marks the first year a killing occured with an AK-47 in Hoddesdon:

http://www.ladlass.com/intel/archives/010018.html

What do you guys think about this? I like their ignorance on the subject - kill anyone 800 meters away! Hahahaha! The 7.62x39 round would have dropped out of the sky long before then. Maybe they think if you slipped and fell on it? This would be a lucky shot with even a 5.56 rd and even implausable then! Typical media.

Anyway, I wish you and your British counterparts were armed once more. Reading this stuff makes me shiver at how vulnerable you guys are becoming.

-S

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...03_468x624.jpg


There goes the neighborhood.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v...ime/gun-crime/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm

I asuure you I am 100% serious. Arwe you backing out?
Why do you think this is stupid?

Drugs? I know someonme who smokes a little weed, but I doubt she will know where
I can find a gun, but I will ask her anyway.

If this was America I could have probuble got one by now.
If you have any more tips, advixe or instructions go ahead.

Damn! Just when Van Diemen's Land is getting full, too!

Not to beat you up too much, but I just told you how. Same way for the US. Find one illegal activity, and you will find the rest. Drugs is the easiest to find, since a dealer who trusts, is a dealer that know someone who knows someone. If the UK teenagers in the previous article I posted can do it with greater than 60% success rate, and these may be the only ones who can come up with the cash, where the rest still know where to find it, then I'm sure you can too.

I've abandoned some friends who got hooked on drugs, and I've seen 10+ years ago on how one could find whatever they want to find. Have money, will travel as the saying goes. Nothing you can say to a druggie will ever get them off of what it is they think brings them attention. I swear its a poor me attitude. But if I had the money and the will, and he could make a buck off the top, anything is mine.

Maybe you haven't seen this underworld in front of your nose, but I have. I didn't like what I saw being young and naive, in fear for what I thought was a friend. In the end, I call it an education however and never was I tempted, resulting in a stronger me. Today, he doesn't even know where I live since I don't trust him, though he can find me via messenger occasionally. He chose his lifestyle, and I got married resulting in a split forever as far as I can see. That was over 10 years ago.

You might say I'm hardened in some ways. And you might say I think many of you are so naive, it hurts, and you would be right.

-S

Well, I would honestly not know where to start, but I will ask my pot-somkeing friend
and if I get stuck I will come back to ask you.

Good thing I don't need to murder any one in a hurry.

Don't ask the wrong question.... :-? Questions can wind you up in a heap of trouble.

Oh Yago I do so love how your devious little mind works.....:rotfl:

No "wrong questions"?
You think i might get in trubble? With the police? with Criminals?

Yeesh! Getting hold of a gun in the UK just gets harder and harder!

Im gonna risk a few questions tho, I wouldn't want to forgo my hypothetical killing
spree because I can't ger hold of a gun in time.

Trex, well said.

Yes they did change the way crimes were recorded but on the contrary it has actually given crime stats the appearance that more crimes were being committed as they included crimes previously deemed too minor to be included plus alleged crimes are now taken into consideration as a measure of peoples experiance of crime.

Unless you can provide figures which refute mine, and indicate that gun crime has actually increased in the period where mine has shown a decrease then I think its case closed.

Another point is that crime statistics now include more minor violent crimes which were previously not considered significant enough to be added to statistics. This in part accounts for the percieved rise in violent crime; a minor confrontation outside a pub ends up in the violent crime figures, where previously it might have been disregarded. In fact I would argue that a major source of violent crime, that inflates the igures, is due to alcohol fuelled fights in town centres at the weekend.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page94.asp

Why Thankyou Subman:up:

Come on Subman that hardly proves anything and is more than a little spurious. Britain has changed dramaticaly since the late 19th century to compare a study from the 1890s to today and then conclude that it shows that gun restrictions have caused a rise in violent crime is quite bit of a logic leap and pretty much ignores any other factors. There are any number of problems with this, for example what was the number of firearms in public posessition at this time? Quite possibly the low number of gun crimes was due to there being few guns around. Also the collecting of stats was most probably not as good as it is now, infact did the police amass crime figures at all? Quite often police incompetance at the time led them to pass off many murders as 'suicides'.

The two strictest series of gun control laws came after two notorious massacres. The Hungerford massacre was one of the primary factors in the banning of self loading rifles in the UK and the Dunblane massacre caused the ban of the ownership of handguns. These restrictions were both passed by conservative governments. Whether you agree with them or not they have both largely removed the threat of 'spree' style killings in the UK involving firearms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

As a matter of fact I didn't agree with the laws passed after Dunblane. They would penalise law abiding people who liked to shoot pistols as a hobby and probably would have minimal impact on illegal arms and may even increase the numbers of illegal arms available. Thats not to say that I didn't think that stricter controls needed to be placed on the ownership of such weapons though.


In some deprived inner city areas where there is trouble with gang culture, some young people see the ownership of a gun as a mark of respect and status. But don't mistake a relatively small minority of teenagers in inner city areas as a general indicator of teenagers within the UK as a whole. Gun crime is largely concentrated in certain innercity areas and is mostly resticted to gang turf wars or involves gang members.

AK-47's are hardly a commom occurance on British streets. More common are reactivated pistols or converted blank firers. But really its not too bad when you consider that the country has been stripped bare of assault rifles since 1987.

Oh don't worry about us in little old England, we'll muddle through as always. :D

But something to consider is not how many gun crimes we have now but how many we would have if there was widespread ownership of firearms like in the US.

I would hazzard a guess that its far easier for ciminals to get hold of firearms in the US than it is in the UK. Infact most illegal firearms in the US were originally from legal sources. In effect the legitimate arms trade in the US supplies the illegitimate.
So actually I'm glad that the UK isn't 'armed'.

I shiver at some of the people who would have access to guns if we had 2nd amendment style laws in the UK.

Also before you mention defending homes etc (incidently it is not true that burglars have more rights than home owners in cases of home invasion in the UK its just that there is no automatic right to the use of leathal force) have you thought that an armed public makes it more likely that criminals will carry guns, effectively escalating the situation rather than countering it?

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnew...afficking.html