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-   -   Do Americans Care About Big Brother? (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=133280)

JSLTIGER 03-18-08 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus
Not saying i believe that, just illustrating how complacent i believe we are. I also beleive that because of that we are also prime pickings for anyone who subscribes to Hermann Goering's philosphy. ( http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp )

Or Adolf Hitler's: "What luck for rulers, that men do not think."

Sailor Steve 03-18-08 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar
Pure democracy truly means majority rule thank the founding fathers for the electoral college every state is represented. Otherwise states with the greatest populations would be ruling over them.

Unfortunately the states with the greatest populations rule anyway. When is the last time you heard of Utah (5 votes) determining the outcome?

Something you might not know: the practice of all the votes of one state going to the same candidate is fairly recent (well, 150 years recent). Read some of the results from early elections and you'll see states being split in the electoral vote.

Of course the Electoral College exists, not to make the states equal, but because the Constitution specifies that electors are appointed "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct". Originally the electors were directly appointed by the legislatures. The popular vote began to be slowly instituted after 1800.

Rockstar 03-18-08 02:42 PM

Look at the Bush/Gore debacle. Popular vote verses the electoral college. Bush wins, next thing you hear is Hillary saying we should get rid of the electoral college. Screw change it works, it isn't perfect, but it works.

We also have the bill of rights which is in place to help prevent majority rule. I say help because it's only paper the hard part is holding on to it and our Constitution.

orwell 03-18-08 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
In 2009 there will be 4 or 5 times the number of libertarian thinking people in America than there was in 2006.

I hope by libertarian you mean what conservative in the US used to mean. True libertarianism is just the transitional anarchy from a democracy to a feudal state. If everyone is free to do as he pleases, then who will stand to protect the little guy? Those with drive will come to dominate, and unless they feel particularily democratic, I'd bet that'd be very unlikely if their libertarian in the first place, then they'll become a feudal lord, a monarch, a member of the aristocratic state.

Blacklight 03-18-08 04:44 PM

The problem with the Electoral Colege is the fact that they aren't required to put their vote in for what the people want. They have it in their power to completely ignore the popular vote for their state and vote for whoever they want. :nope:

They vote for who they "Feel" the people want elected, but they can also be kind of leaning toward one candidate or another unfortunately. This mechanism was put in place in case the Electoral Colege felt that the American public was voting for a really bad candidate who they shouldn't be supporting. It assumes that the American people could be too stuped to vote right. :nope:

Antiacus 03-18-08 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
In 2009 there will be 4 or 5 times the number of libertarian thinking people in America than there was in 2006.

I hope by libertarian you mean what conservative in the US used to mean. True libertarianism is just the transitional anarchy from a democracy to a feudal state. If everyone is free to do as he pleases, then who will stand to protect the little guy? Those with drive will come to dominate, and unless they feel particularily democratic, I'd bet that'd be very unlikely if their libertarian in the first place, then they'll become a feudal lord, a monarch, a member of the aristocratic state.

You've been badly mislead my friend. Modern American Libertarianism is ALL about protecting the little guy. According to Libertarian ideals the truest function of government is the combined defense of the individuals rights.

Libertarianism is a broad collection of political philosophies possessing the common themes of limited government and strong individual liberty. Libertarianism's ideals, although often varied in detail, typically center on policies in favor of extensive personal liberties (e.g., freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of ownership), rejecting compulsory socialism and communism in favor of allowing private property (whether being held on an individual basis or in collective by a group of individuals), promoting personal responsibility and private charity and opposing welfare statism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

August 03-18-08 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight
The problem with the Electoral Colege is the fact that they aren't required to put their vote in for what the people want. They have it in their power to completely ignore the popular vote for their state and vote for whoever they want. :nope:

They vote for who they "Feel" the people want elected, but they can also be kind of leaning toward one candidate or another unfortunately. This mechanism was put in place in case the Electoral Colege felt that the American public was voting for a really bad candidate who they shouldn't be supporting. It assumes that the American people could be too stuped to vote right. :nope:

Has the electoral college ever voted against the wishes of the majority of voters in their respective states? Ever?

Blacklight 03-18-08 09:12 PM

I havn't researched this but it's theroetically possible.

August 03-18-08 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight
I havn't researched this but it's theroetically possible.

I suppose, but unless it's obviously the right thing to do, like if the winner of the popular vote appeared at his victory speech wearing a superhero costume, including cape and facemask, and started sccreaming about how he was gonna nuke them dastardly Scandinavians as soon as he got his finger on the button, any such move by the electoral college would be at least 50% less popular than the superdelegates deciding the Dem nominee in opposition to the their primary vote.

orwell 03-18-08 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
In 2009 there will be 4 or 5 times the number of libertarian thinking people in America than there was in 2006.

I hope by libertarian you mean what conservative in the US used to mean. True libertarianism is just the transitional anarchy from a democracy to a feudal state. If everyone is free to do as he pleases, then who will stand to protect the little guy? Those with drive will come to dominate, and unless they feel particularily democratic, I'd bet that'd be very unlikely if their libertarian in the first place, then they'll become a feudal lord, a monarch, a member of the aristocratic state.

You've been badly mislead my friend. Modern American Libertarianism is ALL about protecting the little guy. According to Libertarian ideals the truest function of government is the combined defense of the individuals rights.

Libertarianism is a broad collection of political philosophies possessing the common themes of limited government and strong individual liberty. Libertarianism's ideals, although often varied in detail, typically center on policies in favor of extensive personal liberties (e.g., freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of ownership), rejecting compulsory socialism and communism in favor of allowing private property (whether being held on an individual basis or in collective by a group of individuals), promoting personal responsibility and private charity and opposing welfare statism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Not sure where those libertarians are, all the ones I've met tend to be just extreme no government.

Antiacus 03-19-08 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
Quote:

Originally Posted by orwell
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiacus
In 2009 there will be 4 or 5 times the number of libertarian thinking people in America than there was in 2006.

I hope by libertarian you mean what conservative in the US used to mean. True libertarianism is just the transitional anarchy from a democracy to a feudal state. If everyone is free to do as he pleases, then who will stand to protect the little guy? Those with drive will come to dominate, and unless they feel particularily democratic, I'd bet that'd be very unlikely if their libertarian in the first place, then they'll become a feudal lord, a monarch, a member of the aristocratic state.

You've been badly mislead my friend. Modern American Libertarianism is ALL about protecting the little guy. According to Libertarian ideals the truest function of government is the combined defense of the individuals rights.

Libertarianism is a broad collection of political philosophies possessing the common themes of limited government and strong individual liberty. Libertarianism's ideals, although often varied in detail, typically center on policies in favor of extensive personal liberties (e.g., freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of ownership), rejecting compulsory socialism and communism in favor of allowing private property (whether being held on an individual basis or in collective by a group of individuals), promoting personal responsibility and private charity and opposing welfare statism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Not sure where those libertarians are, all the ones I've met tend to be just extreme no government.

Interesting. If so, they're simply anarchists claiming to be libertarians. Libertarians can come off sounding like that at times though when compared to your typical republican or democrat that needs his hand held from cradle to grave by the government.


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