Well, using my newly learned skills of how to push my career forward to any date I want, I warped from the start of 1942 to mid-1942. Next stop, 1943.

Despite the increased numbers of escorts, penetrating the screen proved to be pretty much the same as before. Side step the lead centers escorts. Cut in towards the center once passing them. Take time to carefully place some long range shots. Begin a slow quiet descent and departure from the area.

For the fun of it, I intentionally allowed myself to found a couple of times (by making noise). Then, I broke contact as the escorts continue to keep dropping on exactly the same spot.

I even tried to find out what would happen if I stayed shallow by not going below 45 meters. Pretty much the same results. So, I could be hunting in coastal waters and achieve the same.

Perhaps, 1943 will be my year. Funny, how when I started SH3/GWX2, attacking without being detected seemed so hard. Now, it is a piece of cake. I hope 1943 will put the fear of death into me and my crew. I'll need something more than pretty graphics to keep at this. I suppose there is nothing wrong with only playing the second half the war if that is where the challenge is.

Speaking for myself, they are getting nasty now!

I'm into late January of 41, and it's getting nasty. I parked 1.5 kms off the track of a whale factory ship and that would have put me 2 or more kms off the centerline of the convoy. Went to 20 meters depth. I hear a Black Swan moving back and forth at 70 degrees, medium range. Astern, at 170 I hear a corvette going by. I am at silent running. No engines running at all. All of a sudden the Swan starts pinging! At first the pings dont bounce off but then they do. This has never happened before. I get ahead of the convoy, submerge and park it. This wont work against this group. Either something tipped them off or now the Royal Navy does ping sweeps as a standard tactic. It seems to be the standard 5-6 escorts.

Markshot, since you've got it down against the 5-6 group, I'll ask you or anyone else that wants to jump in;
are you parking the sub 2 kms off the exact center of the convoy?
Are you doing all your approaches at night?
the gap bw lead escort and the point - that would the escort that zooms back and forth in the center and the point is the escort off either the front starboard or port quarter, right? If thats it, is the center escort the only one banging away with his active sonar?

Up to mid-1942; going to jump to start of 1943 for the next patrol. I've attacked and got away against 8-9 escorts.

Here are the steps (mainly there are many small tricks to learn; once you do, then it is not hard):

(0) Note I often run at 2048 TC. You ask how do I avoid getting ambushed like this. I watch the smoothness of the clock. If it stutters, then something is happening and I dive and listen. If I hear nothing, then I surface and run at 64 TC for an hour or two just in case.

(1) Make sure you get a general plot from the contact report of convoy. You should get an expanding cone and plot it. Take the speed an plot one hour positions from the base of the cone.

(2) Now place a partial line segment for movement to the top of the first hour. Then, place line segments showing movement of the convoy for each hour.

(3) Plan an intercept such that you will arrive in an area of uncertainty a few hours before the convoy using your navigator. I only attack submerged in daylight. Using your line segments from #2 and the navigator you can work out all the timings without any math equations.

(4) As you near the intercept area, start diving periodically to get a sound contact. Listen personally with the engines shut off, since you can hear the convoy at 34km, but your crew will only be able to pick them up at 20km.

(5) When you get the convoy heard by your crew, then zoom out just far enough that the you have single contact line. Plot it.

(6) Let another 15 or 30 minutes go by. Plot like above.

(7) Draw the convoy's course and extend it. Now, you have a very exact course.

(8) Position to lead the convoy by a couple of hours.

(9) Submerge and go down to 25m. Go silent and run at just 2kts (100rpm).

(10) Keep the convoy on your beam for best listening.

(11) You can use TC up to 8X periodically.

(12) Make sure to get 2-3km off center, since the leads will weave and cover the center.

(13) Forget about the scope and just use the sonar. You are at 25m, in case you need to slow to 1kts or less, you don't want to broach.

(14) Prepare your crew and tubes.

(15) Let the lead escorts go by. Lead escorts are very sensitive to scopes in their forward quarter, but practically blind to them in the rear quarter.

(16) Continue to beam the convoy. The lead escorts should pass you with about 1km clearance. If they get closer, then slow to 1kts or less.

(17) After the leads pass you, then come about turning your bow towards the center line to shoot. Come up to 13M.

(18) Only show enough scope to get convoy ships to show on the map; even if you cannot see them visually due to water splasing. You get the SA, you need.

(19) When ready to shoot, go full up scope and carefully pick your targets and shoot. I am using TII/TIII set for impact.

You will easily get inside the convoy like this. Unlike other games (AOD especially), the escort screen logic is quite weak. What makes GWX2 tough is sensitivity to detect you; not strong AI. Once you know all the tricks to plot, approach, understand formation, and avoid detection ... you are fairly safe to go in a shoot.

Getting away so far has been fairly easy with nothing but a little bit of noise.

1943/44 here I come!

My guess would be that:

(1) You are not giving the escorts enough clearance. If you block their path, then they will find you. But since their formation is fairly rigid and predictable and you have a hours as they approach, you should be able to avoid them at 2kts.

(2) You are making noise and drawing attention to yourself.

(3) You are using your scope while you are out in front of the escorts. There is no need for the scope. You can do all your positioning via sound until it gets close to shooting time.

By the way, I learned the technique by just creating save points and running attacks repeatedly to learn what would work.

Well, there you have it!

The real reason the U-boats failed starting in 1943 wasn't because of the Allied introduced long-range aircraft, improved sonar, hedgehogs, etc.: it was because the U-boat commanders forgot to create save points before they attacked, and thus were unable to return from death to take advantage of their new-found knowledge of what would work and what wouldn't work! :p

I guess this means this we didn't make GWX tough enough. :o :damn:

We'll obviously have to go back to the drawing boards after we finish V2.1 and rethink what will really make the convoys a lot tougher. :arrgh!:

Pablo

your above list has some little problems for people using OLC's GUI and 100% realism.. no ships on the map

Everyathing else I say: Thanks a lot for that nice instruction :up:

When I play, I do the DID thing. But there is nothing wrong with using your careers to create and save a realistic set of practice scenarios to learn from.

That's another reason why noobs find SH3/GWX2 so hard in the early years. They get very little training time in, since it only happens when they encounter a convoy. Training for the player is very realistic. All military staff train during peace time and war time. So, I would not call this cheating even if some might (no different than reading the tips in the GWX manual).

Also, you can do most of what I suggested even without contacts on the map. It just becomes more tedious, but the principles still work fine.

Okay, I am heading out on patrol on 01/15/43. That should do it right? I am going to meet still opposition which if I am not careful should get me killed when attacking convoys?

Thanks.

The screen shot illustrates the basic intercept approach based on a contact report. We see:

(1) The corridor of probability.

(2) Hourly positions based on 8kts.

(3) The double line shows where I think the convoy will see the sunrise.

(4) The convoy should reach the sunrise position in about 5.5 hours. We will reach the area base on the navigator in 3.5 hours.

(5) The circle gives us some idea where we should able to hear to convoy.

(6) When we reach this area will begin dives every 30 minutes to try pick up the sound of the convoy.

Once we can hear the convoy, we start plotting a detailed track and from their planning our attack. Generally, I have tried to stay beyond visible range (except in bad weather). So, that has meant giving the convoy 15-20km bearth. Now, with the convoy maybe being fitted out with radar this presents a problem.

What is the radar detection range of mast mounted radar? 12nm, 20nm, 30nm? Do we have any tables?

This alone could pose a major problem to my hunting of convoys, since previously sonar always gave me the advantage of long range detection. Perhaps, the advantage has shifted. Well, we'll see.

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth01.jpg

Thanks for the earlier suggestions, I will definately try them out. I think Reason 1. is more likely than reason 2 and 3. For 2, I was at Silent Running, 0 knots at 25 meters.
For 3, I didnt even touch th scope. But for 1, I was parked so I was 1000 meters off the furthest outside merchant. When I got pinged, I did go to periscope depth, turned the scope the at the destoryer and he was coming on 700 meters away. I am guessing he caught me somewhere bw 800-1000 meters. My angle to the convoy was not 90 degree perpindicular, more like 130. I will try your idea of staying abeam, and having my 180 degree area face them. It may be a smaller profile to pick up too. I'll check out parking further outside the convoy too.

I agree with you in that the AOD AI was good. I remember those days when the DDs would box you in and it was a nightmare to get out. The chit chat in the bar was good too. SHIII graphics with AOD game engine would be awesome. I did manage to shake my DD but I had to crank a hard 90 to port as he was coming over, 150 meters deep. That threw him off, otherwise he was going to ping me to insanity. No damage taken so far, just burning off more gas than I want.

Good luck with 1943. Sink them all and make it back! If you do, 1/2 a bottle of beer for each of the crew.

Check this out. Not one, but two convoys! :) Ah, yes!

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth02.jpg

Here is an example of using just the right level of zoom to establish courses for these convoys:

http://home.comcast.net/~markshot/tempimages/meth03.jpg

Hi!

Actually, things didn't get really tough until May 1943 (aka "Black May").

Pablo

In the later years you'll learn the usefulness in having a homing torpedo in the aft tube ready to go. it's saved my bacon quite a few times.:yep: