If you couldn't leave the establishment then it would be a breach of your freedom, but
you can leave anywhere, anytime.

When you pay to enter, you pay to enter once.
If you don't like that arrangement, then you are free not to partake in it.

It in no way discriminates against smokers as the rule is the same for everyone.

Im all for smoking bans in public places like resturants, shops, and the like. I used to smoke - heavily. These days i can't stake one drag off a "coffin nail" without getting sick the next day. So someone smoking around me makes me cough pretty quick.

I degress on one point though. Bars. Most people in bars smoke anyway. I used to have a beer in one hand, and a smoke in the other. THey go hand in hand. When i quite drinking, is when i quit smoking (associated habits). Ode to nasty ass high in tar content 88's. How i don't miss getting up in the morning and coughing up black s**t in the toilet after smoking a pack or two from the previous night.

I always think it's a shame when my mate can't smoke in a bar or pub.
But at the same time I remember that if the chemicals in the air where not from
smoking, but from some kind of chemical leak in a pipe, the place would be shut down
as a health risk quickly and no one should have to leave their job behind the bar
because it's a health risk to them.

True but you are conveniently missing the point that if I leave I can't get back in and that kind of wastes the normally large amounts of money I spent on the concert.

The lack of freedom is how the government is getting worse, soon I won't be able to have a smoke in my own car, on a footpath or in a park.

They bring these laws in but don't care about how it effects tax payer's like me. If in the past restraunts where required to have non smoking areas, why can't they require places to supply an area for smokers to smoke in?

All I can say is if you enter a place where they have smoking and you don't like it, YOU CAN LEAVE AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! Banning smoking in all pubs and clubs is not the solution and it's pure BS. I'm sure a pub that didn't allow smokers would bring in a large amount of people because of that, but why can't I run a pub next door designed to attract people who do smoke? Sure i'll need a special license and ensure proper ventilation but wtf not? Isn't that what a freemarket economy is based on? Well in theory anyway.

All I know is this is a movement I think is good, but implemented very poorly and the whole bloody world is infected. Good intentions don't always lead to good results.

>>Good intentions don't always lead to good results

See Prohibition.

Bingo!

Thinking about it my big problem is with venues not caring about it's smoking customers more than the laws but hey, being an old punk rocker it's hard to stop being against the establishment. :arrgh!:

If you pay to go in to a place and you want to go in twice, then of course you have to pay twice.

you are paying to go in, your not paying for a day ticket.


It wasn't banned in work places because people didn't like it. It was banned because
it creates a potential health hazard.
You could argue that people should be free to put the health of their clients, patrons
and staff at hazard if their clients, patrons and staff are happy with that, however,
under that logic it would be acceptable for a restaurant to have rats in the kitchen
as long as no one complained. Those that don't like the rats can "LEAVE AND GO
SOMEWHERE ELSE!!".

Then there are problems with having to sack staff because their health has deteriorated
for one reason or another and they can no longer work in a smokey environment.

You're just being difficult here. It's obvious that they SHOULD give pass-outs for smokers, you just don't care as your not affected. Fair enough but I however am affected and care.

You are 100% correct in this.

Smokers shouldn't expect much sympathy as time goes on because it's a habit that is quickly dying (No pun intended) out.

The only thing i really can't stand is how our government taxes it so much. If they achieve their stated objective of getting everyone to quit the loss of that revenue is going to have to be made up from somewhere...

But if I pay and go in, and leave - I am needing to pay a second time, too. Leturm's somewhat academical point is that it is not discriminatory, since it is not different for smokers and non-smokers. Although I agree that it might not be the best arrangement. They probably do it for practcial reasons like this, to avoid person A leaving, hendle over the tricket to person B, and B then goes in without ever having payed at all.

Some young women I think look quite hot when they smoke. I guess its that whole notion where there is smoke there is fire.

Yes?. Completely the opposite here. Ignoring the bad smell of her skin and hair and bad taste of her lips from cigarettes, just thinking of the looks: a cigarette in an elseway beautiful girl's/woman's face immediately let's me turn away and let interest and lust :lol: fall to zero - it looks so very ugly like black lipstick and neon-green hair.

Whhhooo there!

Now I don't like a smokey flavored lass any more than you SB, but what have you got
against neon-green hair?!
Granted, anyone would prefer blue, but green still odes it for me!

Live experience to follow....
 

Hi folkes,

I ( non -smoker)
am sitting *right now* (UMTS cards/notebooks will save us all) in my favorite pub in Europe/D/Niedersachsen (the REAL name of our federal country :rock: F$/& You! calling it something else, like lower... WE ARE NOT lower-..something .... call us Niedersachsen, if you please!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niedersachsen
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niedersachsenlied (german only :oops:)

And as a non smoker I can asure you all: I enjoy (!!!!!) being in my pub and my clothes will NOT smell like a trash dump afterwards...

****Life coverage**
Me: sitting at the bar
Non-smoking fellows: sitting everywhere
Smokers: Sitting for a smoke or a talk(somtimes me=passive) in a seperate area near the entrance (whole bar crew is missing for 5 minutes every hour :rotfl:)
... and returning after having a smoke to the table of their friends...

So the smokers have a little walk, ... and I get to know some of them ... very friendly.... (girl-friend is now outside, for her smoke.. :lol: If I would want, no problem to join her, but I don't want to...)

..
say what?

It works!!!!!! :yep:

It will look even more funny when people decide to have fatty meal, a few years from now.