True, true. Well the consequenses are real..... just not the torps them selves
Still theres nothing worse than a sub with torpedo constipation, maybe we just need a 'dietry tips for AI Uboats mod' order the crew to put some laxatives in the torpedo tubes :lol:

So your choice is to update the manual?

600 pages grow to 800 :rock: Don't worry.. I WILL READ THEM!

Why? 'Cause I like it!! :up:

Yes you are right. Sorry for my bad english, yoda:) . What I mean was the torpedo explosion is real. Many thanks for GWX:rock: :rock: :rock: , Kpt. Lehmann.

lol well maybe i got the ship explosion bit wrong then its been a while since i played GWX 1.3, but wolfpacks were simulated albeit in an abstract way right? im sure they were

They had no means of simulating any kind of torpedo attack but they would certainly draw the escorts attention away from you.

I did test out Sergs VIIA with the simulated torpedo launch with adding to GWX 2.0 in mind
BUT
The game sees the sub as surfaced - not submerged so every ship in convoy will open up on it with surface weapons
Limitation of the work around

Something we couldnt get around so was left out

Hey BBW, you been quiet around these parts recenlty. :arrgh!:

Just formatted PC as it kept freezing
I hate computers

Anywhoo after a damn windows update it started freezing again so have been playing around
Changed the grafix card and updated bios etc etc

Thats where I have been at

:rotfl:

Hopefully yer sorted now......if any replenishment is needed, drop me a line ;)

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/imag...s/wolfmoon.jpg


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/d...de/wolf-38.gif

Hmmm.
:hmm:
Maybe it's time for me to back stuff up!

Welcome back My Friend!!
:up:

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'd been meaning to respond to this matter with a little more detail than we usually give... as it is a matter that we are constantly questioned on.

Why there are no submerged wolfpacks in GWX:
(Or "Why don't you guys use existing workarounds?)

1) We are not happy with the currently available workarounds/submerged AI subs for a number of reasons.

2) BBW hit the nail on the head with his earlier post on this thread stating, "The game sees the sub as surfaced - not submerged so every ship in convoy will open up on it with surface weapons." It is a limitation of existing workarounds.

3) When ASW ships SHOOT at an AI sub that they detect as being SURFACED even though it is actually submerged... eventually, enemy vessels close to short range and unload everything they have at the submerged U-boat... causing FPS hits often large enough to crash the game on very good PC's.

4) ASW vessels do not depth charge currently available submerged AI subs... instead opting to shoot at them as described above.

5) The heavy damage models on currently available AI subs make them to be true "Tiger tanks" as a result of being required to absorb the mass of surface ship gunfire directed at them in game.

6) Currently available AI subs must be scripted to be either surfaced or submerged. They cannot transition from one state to the other independantly.

"Well, didn't you guys say that you built an AI sub that can dive when in proximity of the enemy?"

Yes. IIRC we also solved the problem that caused AI subs to be viewed as SURFACED when they submerge... causing enemy surface units to depth charge the new diving AI subs.

Unfortunately, when they receive damage by DC... the game CTD's... and the problem DOES NOT appear to be related to the damage model(s).

Once the problem is sorted... (If the problem is sorted...) It will be an easy matter to make ALL AI subs in GWX dive when in proximity with the enemy. (Axis and Allied both.)

We have already pre-positioned AI subs where they need to be... and they will continue to fight on the surface using deck guns for the time being... until they are replaced by us with new diving AI subs.

Will the new diving AI subs be available with the version 2.1 update for GWX???

No.

When will they be ready???
... and all the Grey Wolves said... "WHEN ITS READY!":lol:
Indeed guys, this may be a problem that we cannot overcome. There is no need to keep asking after you've read this post, and you shouldn't lose any sleep waiting for this one from us.

If you choose to use existing workarounds, and you know how to code externally available AI subs into your installation... feel free to do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! If you encounter problems as a result of non-GWX AI subs and you ask us for advice, we will recommend that you remove them to correct the problem.

IF... and I really do mean IF we are eventually successful with our AI subs plans, they will be made available for GWX users as a very simple JSGME-enabled mod that you can just plug-in, enable, and play. No campaign scripting will be needed as they will be straight one-for-one model replacements...

There is NO internal deadline for these units to be produced... and it may well involve much work that does not result in success.

Now you understand a few of the reasons, regarding our approach to "wolfpacks" in SH3.

I do not view or call that as a limitation, because in RL when the ship crew noticed the sub periscope they would indeed try to open up with everything which was available on the sub in an attempt to hit the sub. That's why I have given the subs raised periscopes and put them at the periscope depth. In fact, this adds more immersion when attacking convoy along with AI subs, it brings the convoy alive. This works fine in stock.

Now, I can imagine that can lead to strang effects in GWX due to the long-range gunnery mod and tweaked sensors so that ships can open up from very long distance.

In any case, the wolfpack mod is more realistic (at least to me) than a bunch of surfaced AI U-boats attacking a convoy during day time with their deck and AA-guns (this was advertised by some people with screenies from GWX 1.03) which exactly what they would avoid doing in RL.

Nor do we feel that your workaround is somehow more realistic for a number of reasons.

Sergbuto, we have not bashed your work... nor did we name you as a cause of problems that are inherent in SH3.

Assuming that we are successful with the plans we've laid in place, we feel our solution will present a better implimentation than the currently available options.

I've simply stated the facts as they relate to our modding efforts and internal standards that have evolved over the course of deveopment.

We aren't going to hammer something into place that we aren't happy with.

See my reply to the BBW's post below.

I have been using my wolfpack mod since the moment it was created, i.e. for a long time, and never had a single CTD due to that reason in stock SH3 or in NYGM even on my weak machine (1.8 GHz processor, 512 RAM). Therefore, this can't be projected on at least one of "existing workarounds" as it says in the title and reasons for "often"-happening CTDs may be related to GWX itself.

In case you did not mean my mod among "existing workarounds", it would make it less confusing if you named "workarounds" meant because otherwise people would also think about my mod.

I do not know about GWX, but submerged AI subs from the wolfpack mod do get depthcharged in stock SH3 or NYGM (that's why the wolfpck mod was created for in the first place). Therefore, again, this statement can't be projected on all the "existing workarounds"

Submerged AI subs from the wolfpack mod get often killed on the first depthcharging pass by the destroyer and most definitely on the second pass. IMO, nothing unusually strong in this respect.

In the end I'd like to say that it is certainly the right of the GWX team to desing their work /mods in accord with their vision and understanding of realism but the statements concerning "existing workarounds" or/and other mods should be more clear so that people do not get confused or mis-informed.

Very well.

I was purposefully obscure about 'existing workarounds' in an effort to prevent offending sensitive modders.

It is for this SOLE reason that I've avoided the explainations for so long, but it does involve repeated inquiries by GWX users that deserve an answer.

Somewhere, an egg was likely to get broken.

What I have described in part, is the behavior of your AI U-boats within the GWX mod framework. Just as you are not familiar with GWX, we do not claim to know all the ins and outs of NYGM mod behavior.

All the same, we are not willing to break other major modding advancements relating to sensors and gunnery, that are quite solid in order to field units that do not function as expected in GWX.

It is a simple matter of cost versus benefit analysis that the average GWX user would not otherwise understand without explaination.