I've often thought of making a thread like this but felt there wasn't a lot of point to it. I've always seen SH3 having more users than SH4, other than the initial flurry when SH4 came out. It's true as I write this, and has been for the last 3 months at least.

The differences for me are:
* SH3 offers more interesting gameplay.
* SH4 still has significant issues the modders in SH3 have gone much further to addressing.
* the Atlantic will always, to me, be the more interesting theatre. The Japs never really got their ASW together. The USA subs started with technological superiority and simply extended it throughout the war. The increasing difficulty of the Atlantic makes it more interesting and a greater challenge. To make the Pacific as much of a challenge you would have to ignore historical reality - pretty stupid aim for a sim!
* SH4 is superior to SH3 in only a few areas (graphics, crew organisation being the most obvious) and those aren't major factors in what makes me interested. The AI in SH4 is still very poor, I can't make surface attacks ever without being detected, the level of air patrols is totally absurd etc..... So SH3 is, with its mods, a far better sim in the ways that count.

Given the point about the different theatres involved, SH4 would have to do the most important things far better than SH3 for it to be as enjoyable for me. Fact is, it doesn't (in fact, given it was a 'new' release, it isn't even up to the level of SH3 - and we know why that is......).

SH4 is still a babe in the woods. Give it the time SH3 has had concerning modding and I believe it will be right up there. Honestly, I felt SH3 was a bit of a yawn straight out of the box after 3 months of play. When the super mods hit, then and only thin did I get interested again and stayed with it. Currently the guys really interested in modding SH4 making the best it can be are doing a fantastic job and I'll be the last one to tell them otherwise. All in all, I believe they are both great games in their own right.

As far as theater preference goes, the Atlantic has one major thing going for it that the pacific doesnt. "Hollywood" for want of a better term. It's evident everywhere you go in the SH3 community. Das boot styled crew shirts, das boot styled officer icons, many sounds used in game come from das boot.

Other then an old black and white movie with Clark Gable, name one movie that told of the pacific and the exploits of Fleet boats that people have acutally heard of? This kind of media coverage will always attract more people - it's been glamorized and dramatized. This glamorization peaks interest, and people start to read more about it. Hence, more people start getting into the atlantic, and assuming the pacific action to be as significant as (how one person i know put it), the "lithiuanian Navy". Personnally ive always felt that what the pacific theater lacked in scale, it made up for in intensity. Many of the harbor raids and such people like to do in the atlantic, are i believe are acutally inspired by stories from the pacific since it occured there more often then the one recorded incident called "skapa flow".


Another factor is simply, where people call home. Folks from the UK, and other parts of Europe, are simply going to be more interested in what occured near their part of the world. Its just a natural tendency. I did the same thing by doing most of my war patrols in the carriebean and US east cost while playing SH3.

With SH3 I could literally park in my back yard, in fact took my sub to where I kayak alot near my parent's house here on PEI.


RDP

I wonder too if the greater popularity with SH3 does not also have something to do with the nature of the two oceans these two sims are played in. The Atlantic conjures up images of a cold, wet, grey and dangerous ocean with high running seas and hard stinging spray in your face. These are more in keeping with a war sim. The Pacific on the other hand, is generally warm, flat with beautiful sunsets and translucent blue seas. When you go up onto the bridge it’s hard to resist grabbing your trunks, suntan lotion, towel and shades. And then to top it all, you have these awesome scenery graphics where every island is a honeymoon must.


What made the difference so stark for me was having reloaded SH3 back onto my machine to mod it to Grey Wolf (not having played it with this mod before). On firing up one is immediately struck by the use of more subdued and steely colours and imagery which immediately conjures up mind pictures of menace, stealth and death. So different from SH4 with its sunny bright colours given the theatre it’s played in.

The Submarine war in the Atlantic offers much more drama and tension in my view. If SH3 ever becomes available without Starforce, I will happily reload it, patch it, mod it and play it.

I think what the post proves is that game immersion is always going to win out over graphical appearance, although having both is the perfect world. SH4 patched to 1.3 and modded with TM 1.5 is excellent, but it can't capture the Drama of the Atlantic. :D

The drama is in the history, that will never change, but Stock SH3 did not offer this in the beginning, later super-mods like GWX ( close to 2 years later ) and others added drama into the game.

In time I think the same experience will be accomplished in SH4. I am just glad I have both SH3\4 to sim in :yep:


RDP

HEY!

Saturday, Aug 18/07: 1:02 ET

SHIV: 103

SHIII: 104


IT'S A TIE!






Pointless comparison.

JCC

I still like apples :smug:

I prefer wheelbarrows!

JCC