:o

I wondered why they kept sighting me LONG before they even popped up on the horizon (always headed straight at me).

This needs to be fixed f*ckin' fast!:shifty:

Interesting. The radar for the Japanese really did not come in to play until late war. Even then not all had the radar set up.

Question.

When being "pinged", does that mean you ARE detected or does it mean that you are NOT detected until the echo is received...? What is the interval time?

I'm assuming that when you first hear the "ping" that means you are already detected.

I just need a confirmation.

Pings can be heard even when he is searching. So a ping does not mean he is locked on you. A sure indication he has got you pegged....he makes a run at you and ping starts to repeat faster and faster. You will hear the screw going over head.

AVGWarhawk,

Thanks..... That's exactly what I thought...It also seems that I can hear the return echo. Is that true also?

The only return echo I hear is when I ping at the target I selected.

Stragegy when on the receiving end
 

Here's a repost of a couple earlier posts. They're the story of being on the receiving end of over 100 ashcans and it might be entertaining:

OK, I'm playing with destroyers again. Here's something different. I was stalking radar contacts in fog, driving rain, 10 m/sec wind, overcast and daytime. Visibility is about 450 yards, sometimes less. I'm shooting torpedoes on sonar only and just sank 2 freighters that way, six torpedoes, 5 hits, thank you WernerSobe!

Two more radar contacts running six knots north, freighters, right? So I set up ahead, 1000 yards off track and wait for my stern shots. Hehehehehehehehehehe! Watch the radar until they're a mile away. Submerge to periscope depth and acquire em on sonar. Wait for the bearing to be about 350 and it's time to start pinging. Ping. Ping. Target speeding up. Approaching fast!

Hmmmmmmm..... That's not very freighter-like conduct... Oh, @#$@#$%@!!! crash dive. At 110 ft or so hit full right rudder pull back to ahead 1/3 at 180 or so and straighen out the rudder. Ahhhhh a nice thermal layer, rig for silent running, hit the RPM at exactly 100 RPM, the quietest (that isn't exactly 1/3 throttle, by the way Ducimus) and just wait to slink away.

Three minutes later here's that high speed freight train overhead and he's dropping ashcans right on top of me. Good thing I'm at 260 and have some time. Full left, ahead emergency for a couple seconds and back to 1000 RPM. The event camera came on so he must have been pretty close. He didn't ping once.

Lets go down to 300, change course 90º, lalalalalalalalalalalala. Freight train again. Here comes the depth charges. Right on top of me and I slink out again because depth is my buddy.

This has happened four times now in a 45 minute period. From the beginning mr destroyer has not pinged once. Unless he has Superman up there using his x-ray vision, this is totally impossible. I'm in lousy sonar conditions with a great thermal layer above me, silent running trying both 100 RPM and your ahead 1/3. He follows me around like a good puppy dog.

Sorry Ducimus, that's way out of the line of possibility. Methinks the AI needs some tweaking. Even in GWX they have to ping you to find you running silent at 1 kt (although these depth charges don't seem as deadly as GWX).

Other than this event, I really have enjoyed TM. Coming from RFB I didn't really expect to, but it seems to me reality is well served here if you ignore Superman up there. Have any kryptonite?:huh:

*****************************************
Arrrrrrrrrrr! Gave em the slip. :arrgh!:Hey, next time a Zero crashes in your neighborhood, can you get me one of those Mitsubishi tachs? Oh yeah, I couldn't use it anyway because I left my metric screwdriver in Pearl. Guess I'm stuck with these Oldsmobile tachometers. I couldn't read metric RPM or whatever they use anyway. I was onboard one of those Limey subs and their tachs said "REVS." Keep me away from those things too.

OK, I'm up here on the surface taking a shower again. Radar says Superpoop is a mile away and not moving. It's mighty tempting to go see what I can do with him but I have a shade over 15,000 tons and 8 stern torps left, one in tube 1 up front. I have half a tank of diesel. "Mass tonnage" will never come up when talking about this cruise. Seems to me the uber-AI results in much more realistic tonnage per patrol. Of course you could cheat and return to Midway for refits to extend it. In R/L Admiral Lockwood would have something to say about that.

No sign of any tractor beams or phazers. The destroyers can be dealt with and survival is not that difficult for me. Of course I'm trained on GWX where there are no thermal layers and the U-Boats are slower running silent at 1 kt instead of the American Gato's 2 kt at quietest speed. I'm not going to change a thing because I'm just having too much fun. I'd say if you're getting killed too much you ought to work on your tactics.

Remember, when the destroyer is pinging, he's not listening. Pinging is your signal to hit the throttle and maneuver yourself quickly to a new hidey spot at a different depth and get back to silent running. Pinging does not mean he necessarily knows where you are, either. Inaction is fatal here. Keep twisting. Vary depths with the realization that deeper is better most of the time.

When the charges hit the water, remember his stern is now facing you. Do a radical turn and hit the throttle because you're in the clear for a bit. If he's on top of you dropping ashcans and you sit there, your patrol is over. He can't hear you, he can't ping you right now. Hit the jets and get out of there. After a short spurt, go back to silent running again.

If there are two or more destroyers you can be sure that at least one is always backed away listening. That means much shorter bursts of power reluctantly used only when survival is in the balance. Stay deep, quiet and zigzag like the drunken sailor you are in Pearl. Your goal is to put both destroyers back of bearings 135/225 and the angles progressing toward 180, showing you are leaving them safely astern.

Remember you are moving. When the bearing to the destroyer stays the same, that means you would be on a collision course if you were on the surface. In this case it means that he is either moving straight away from you or is going to pass right overhead. There's a freight train a'comin'. Try to change course to see if his bearing then begins to change, showing he will pass ahead or astern. If the bearing does not change, he's following your turn. Then you have to time the drop and run out from under it as the ashcans fall.

Ducimus, you're the expert! Anything to add? Am I making you want to get out here?:up: I can tell you one thing. RFB is gonna have to wait. This is too much fun.

*****************************************

Had two-thirds battery left and was playing pattycake with Mr Destroyer. After the tenth dry run or so, I figured he's lost his teeth, so I came up to periscope depth. It seemed like he had a harder time tracking me at periscope depth! Anybody have any info on that? So I poked up the scope to see how he conducted business.

I'm still freakin about running him clear out of ashcans, but he's still plenty dangerous. Probably on the radio with his little airplane buddies or other tin cans. Earlier in the battle, when he was running at me and I shot three in a spread he outmaneuvered the torps and just ran over me. That was bad because he wasn't out of depth charges yet.:down:

Don't want to do that again. So I waited to see how he conducted his attack. High speed approach and run over me. Lets off on the throttle after he's a hundred yards beyond me and lolligags out there. Hmmmmmm... I'll try one torpedo and see what I can do next run.

Stuck up the scope so he saw it, and just like old Ferdinand the bull he charges at 30 kt! I just lowered the scope and stayed put. Raised it after he passed. Angle on the bow 180º. Speed who cares!!! Range, mark! 400 yards. Wait one... Fire three. One up the poop chute while he's pickin his nose, eh? BOOOOOOOOOM! He lifted up and came down in two flaming pieces. How do I do this?.... @#$@##!!!! Who'da thought Google would have problems linking. Photobucket time!!!!
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...032.25_345.jpg
The Mutsuki from hell pays the price....

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...033.33_111.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...033.33_111.jpg
Ah, tis better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. This Japanese destroyer was worthy of any Limey tin can in the English Channel. It was Muhammed Ali and Joe Frazier. One mistake and somebody dies. He got first shot with over 100 depth charges in dozens of deadly accurate runs with me in only 200' of water. I tried him earlier with that spread of 3 and came up empty. He almost killed me there. But he was the one that made his allotted one fatal mistake this time. Everybody's entitled to just ONE of those, you know.

I machine gunned the lifeboat. It isn't enough to destroy the boat, you must kill men who are that dangerous before they kill your friends on a future patrol. War is hell and sometimes we love it so. I'll apologize to the man upstairs when I get there, but our meeting has been posponed for now. Let me just breathe the fresh surface air and smell the smoke of victory.

"Hey Cookie, fire up that oven and get to work on our victory cake!"

"Cap, there ain't no oven on this lousy simulation. You should never buy another Ubisoft product. This damn thing ain't finished until I have an oven!"

"You should talk, Cookie, you were in the conning tower all during the attack whining about no periscope animations. Get a life, would ya? Now bake that cake. That's an order."

"Surface the boat. Course 90, speed 2/3, I'm going below. Wake me at 0500 or if we detect any aircraft."

I have to post that whole story in the stories thread but haven't had the ambition. Hope you picked up a couple pointers and enjoyed the story.

Sitting still is a nono if you are in detection/attack range of military ships. Stay on the move and keep the enemy guessing even if you are crawling on your hands and knees. You certainly cannot work the aspect angle or slip by a DC attack sitting still nor can you change depth effectively. It's important when the escort drops a DC charge where he thinks you are, you not be there any more.

Since 1.3 Battle Stations increases your noise level a bit over that of normal stations and Silent Running. I use Battle Stations when being attacked to respond to repairs more efficiently and when the enemy deffinately knows where I am and I cannot avoid making noise. I keep it off all the rest of the time.

As far as the general tone of the thread, it's obvious from all the suggestions from experienced sub simmers the game is not coded to doom you to Davie Jones. Play smart and you will beat the puter more times than not.

You might also peruse the many posts from people complaining the game is too easy and the escorts too dumb. The reality is it's somewhere in between and every player is going to have a slightly different experience. This is a clue the game has great depth and balance.

Last, if you are not having fun, turn down the game settings until you do.
-Pv-

There you go! And don't feel bad about it either. It's not as if the settings are set in stone. You can make the game more difficult as your skills get better. I'd start with manual targeting off too until boat handling becomes routine. Maybe the best way to turn the settings down would be just to make depth charges less deadly, so if they hit you they don't kill you. I don't know how to do that but someone will chime in here with instructions. After all: this is Subsim!

Then slowly increase the difficulty as you become more skilled at the game. You're not going to build any skills by being killed in five minutes by the first destroyer you see.:damn: You gotta live to learn!

So turn the settings down a bit to begin with. You'll be at full manual soon enough and in the meantime, it's just between you and me. I won't tell a soul that you're playing with anything less than full manual.:yep:

Wonder what Rockin Robbins had to say... sorry couldent read it dark blue on black :doh:

Anyhow someone asked about the time from ping to the return echo. It depends of course on the distance between the target and the source. Still though its in the span of a second or to down to fractions of seconds. Speed of sound is 600 feet per second in air ? I think its basically doubled in water. Please correct me if Im wrong.

... something about the writer shouldn't have been depth charged (he got away without being hit btw) if he's below the layer changing depth while at 100 RPM without being pinged...

So I would ask why the escort captain wouldn't lay down a pattern of charges multiple times over a general area SUSPECTED to contain an enemy sub when it was last detected?

While I emphasized the futility of sitting still when detected, it's also bad to spend too much time crawling when it's obvious the can got lucky and he's bracketing you with near misses. It's time to make like a squid and squirt your way outa there. Take advantage of the can not using sonar and go high speed for a while during the turbulent water and you are behind him. Even if he gets a wiff of your noise, he only knows a little about what direction you are relative to him, knows you have high RPMs, and can guess by the volume how far you might be, but by the time he's turned around, you are further away, have gone silent, turned, and changed depth. You may have to do this many times. He may drop a lot of DC set to multiple depths hoping to get lucky. Some will continue to land close and trigger the cam. As time goes on his misses will increase.
Obviously if you are being hogged by more than one escort, you have to be crafter than this, and with three or more, your chances of squeezing through diminish greatly. Nothing unrealistic about any of this. Play smart. Learn from your mistakes, use different tactictics and realize not every can has the same capability or skill.

Rule number 1
Be aggressive
Rule number 2
Don't get detected
Rule number 3
Once detected, use multiple tactics to get away and don't slack off thinking you're safe after the 1st DC pass just because you used your favorite pet tactic.

Once detected, remember the surface ship now has the advantage and he has to make mistakes to loose you and every mistake you make negates the ones he makes retaining his advantage.

-Pv-

Lousy colors
 

OK, guys. I've edited my first post to black on the quoted story so hopefully it can be read. Apparently this chat engine doesn't change colors for visibility for people with different viewing options. At least Smart Dark isn't so smart.

There is a quick and dirty workaround. Just highlight the unreadable text with your mouse. Tada!

What looks good for me looks bad with the black background. This makes the color options useless.:down: Go read it now and see what you think.