there was no exterior cam that I remember in AOD (and I seldom use it it SH4) so the whole purpose of lying silently was to surprise you. And they often did. It was hard to discern if one of the escorts had gone quiet or simply left. With the earlier subsims like AOD you didn'y have the kind of system control we now enjoy in SH4.

The main thing I wish was an option for SH3 and SH4 is realistic escort behavior when they lose a contact. Ther were standard patterns escorts would ue to re-establish contact. In the sims they just flounder around. A spiral or ladder search will hold you down and leave that fear that an hour or so may pass but they might/can contact you again.

It led to being held down for 12 hour stretches in AOD and I actually kind of miss that...

Captain Frederic John Walker RN, developed the "Creeping Attack", utilizing at least two escort vessels. One was a "directing" ship to maintain regular active sonar contact at a steady range and bearing with the U-Boat, while a second ship headed at a speed of not more then five knots towards the sub's last known position. This second escort had its detection gear turned off. Once in position, it would release his depth charges on the command of the directing ship hoping that its approach had not been detected by the submarine.



I've met something like this kind of tactic in SH III, with two escorts taking it in turns to "direct" / ping while the other makes its attack run. Still not sure about the tactics of Japanese DEs and DDS in SH IV.



Thank goodness I've never met "Operation Plaster," also developed by the redoubtable Captain Walker. Basically , at least three escort vessels move in line abreast literally plastering an area with a large number of depth charges set up to 550 feet at five second intervals. A fourth or even fifth ship would take station a distance away from the activity while maintaining sonar contact with the target. The steady stream of DCs would virtually overwhelm the U-Boat and, if the original range and bearing fix was good, its destruction was often certain.:huh:

And that is my point exactly. In AOD they would use the creeping attack as it was intended ie--you couldn't hear the one coming that was actually making the attack (he was going too slow and not using active sonar). And it was brutally effective.

None of this is to bash SH3 or 4. I like them both very much and still get my share of virtual "thrills" from them. I just wonder why some of these escort techniques which were used weren't programmed into the sim. A ladder search or a line-abreast search for a lost submarine contact should be fairly easy to replicate with today's computers (they managed it on my PS1 386SX).

Again-this isn't a complaint but just more of an observation. As if things aren't tough enough sometimes, I go looking for tougher escorts LOL.

It's just the masochist in me ;)

Peto

I think certain aspects of escort tactics are coded into both SH III & SH IV. I've certainly lost contact with a hunting escort which has slowed right down, or even stopped.

One thing I personally find unsatisfactory in both games - especially considering the availability of Time Compression, is the comparatively very short time for which surface vessels hunt, or wait - "Johnnie" Walker called it "hovering" - after they actually lose contact with a sub. It would often be for several hours. The escort commanders knew the submerged duration of a U-Boat and were prepared to wait in the area until lack of air forced a submarine to surface. It was an acceptable tactic. Sometimes the commander of a convoy's, or task-force's escorts would order a vessel to "hover" in the area a sub was last contacted. At least it kept the sub pinned to very slow progress, often allowing the convoy etc to get away.

Waits of 12 hours were quite commpnplace and some hunts lasted for up to 24 hours.

While I'm on the subject of what I find to be "not quite right": I don't think either SH3, or SH4 give enough weight to HD/DF - locating the area in which a sub was operating through its radio transmissions. It was, after code-breaking, probably the most effective means of locating ( albeit roughly ) submarines at sea.

It is my understanding that the "bending sound sonar floor" is more prevelent at flat angles than looking straight at the bottom. Should work the exact same way as mirages in the desert, where light is bent around the abrupt density layer near the hot hot sand.