Well, if it depends on the Iranians or Faye Turney being Jewish, I doubt it.

As for myself, yes indeed.

What odd illogicalities are produced form being children of our times!

And those illogicalities would be? :hmm:

Arguably almost everything about anyone is a result of the time, culture and location you are born into; and thus whimsical and fleeting in the great scale of all things!

To some people still on earth, certain values are eternal.

Your comment itself is indicative of many a culture that has come and gone, blown away in the wind many a time.

A lot of eternal values tend to be the ones dominant in the culture one grows up in.

Most fervent Catholics grew up with Catholicism, not Hinduism.

Proverbs 12:19, way before Der Blutharsch CDs were first pressed.

UPDATE: Worth quoting the entire verse in Proverbs:

"A true tongue will be established forever, but a lying tongue, just for a moment."

Are there no universal values?

She is crowned with emeralds like leaves,
And rubies flame from either eye;
A rose upon her boson heaves,
Turquoise and lapis lazuli.
She hath a kirtle like a maid :--
Amethyst, amber, pearl, and jade!

Her face is fashioned like a moon;
Her breasts are tongues of pointed jet;
Her belly of opal fairly hewn;
And round about her neck is set
The holy rosary, skull by skull,
Polished and grim and beautiful!

This jeweled shape of gold and bronze
Is seated on my bosom's throne;
She takes my mused orisons
To her, to her, to her alone.
Oh Kali, Kali, Kali, quell
This hooded hate, O Queen of Hell!

Her ruby-studded brow is calm;
Her eyes shine like some sleepy flood;
Her breast is oliban and balm;
Her tongue rolls out, a-dripping blood;
She swings my body to and fro;
She breaks me on the wheel of woe!

To her eternal rapture seems
Mere nature; underneath the crown
Of dusky emeralds there streams
A river of bliss to sluice me down
With blood and tears, to drown my thought.
To bring my being into naught.

The cruel teeth. the steady sneer,
The marvelous lust of her, I bring
Unto my body bright and clear
(Dropped poison in a water spring!)
To fill me with the utmost sense
Of some divine experience.

For who but she, the adulterous queen,
Made earth and heaven with all its stars,
The storm, the hunger epicene,
The raging at invisible bars,
The hideous cruelty of the whole ?--
These are of Kali, O my soul!

The sterile force of bronze and gold
Bends to my passion, as it grips
With feverish claws the metal cold,
And burns upon the brazen lips
That, parted like a poppy bud,
Have gemmed curves like moons of blood.

The mazes of her many arms
Deludes the eye; they seem to shift
As if they spelled mysterious charms
Whereby some tall grey ship should drift
Out to a windless, tideless sea
Motionless from eternity.

This then I seek, O woman-form!
O god embowelled in curves of bronze!
The shuddering of a sudden storm
To mix me with thy minions
The lost, who wait through endless night,
And wait in vain, to see the light.

For I am utterly consumed
In thee, in thee am broken up.
The life upon my lips that bloomed
Is crushed into a deadly cup,
Whose devilish spirit squats and gloats
Upon the thirst that rots our throats.

Gape wide, O hideous mouth, and suck
This heart's blood, drain it down, expunge
This sweltering life of mire and much!
Squeeze out my passions as a sponge,
Till naught is left of terrene wine
But somewhat deathless and divine!

Not by a faint and fairy tale
We shadow forth the immortal way.
No symbols exquisitely pale
Avail to lure the secrets grey
Of his endeavor who proceeds
By doing to abolish deeds.

Not by the pipings of a bird
In skies of blue on fields of gold,
But by a fierce and loathly word
The abomination must be told.
The holy work must twist its spell
From hemp of madness, grown in hell.

Only by energy and strife
May man attain the eternal rest,
Dissolve the desperate lust of life
By infinite agony and zest.
Thus, O Kali, I divine
The golden secret of thy shrine!

Death from the universal force
Means to the force less universe
Birth. I accept the furious course,
Invoke the all-embracing curse.
Blessing and peace beyond may lie
When I annihilate the "I."

Therefore, O holy mother, gnash
Thy teeth upon my willing flesh!
Thy chain of skulls wild music clash!
Thy bosom bruise mine own afresh!
Sri Maharani! draw my breath
Into the hollow lungs of death!

There is no light, nor any motion.
There is no mass, nor any sound.
Still, in the lampless heart of ocean,
Fasten me down and hold me drowned
Within thy womb, within thy thought,
Where there is naught-Where there is naught!

It depends what you mean by values and universal. ;)

Humans are the only things capable of giving things value.
Even the corners of a triangle will not add up to 180 degrees if there is no one there to add them up. Murder does not have a value of wrong if there are are no people to give it that value (unless you sign up to a platonic "world of ideas" that keep these values eternal).
Kant gets round this by suggesting that there eternal, moral values in each person that are universal to all people and accessible via reason (as opposed to in the universe it's self), but Kant came to this not as a "conclusion" but merely as a existential necessity so it has no real bearing out side of anyone who takes it at face value.

Im with Sartre and the Buddha on this one. i.e. it should be of no interest to us if there are eternal values or not; either way we should live our life in the way we believe is right.

*edit* Im really going off one one here and Im guilty of criminal over-simplification. At the moment it's the best I can do for such a VAST question.

For further information on the topic see the whole of mankind's history of philosophy and religion and perhaps more importantly see inside of your self. ;)

Starting just with a simple scarf, this thread has made quite some intellectual evolution... :hmm: