I think the general thought as you know or seemed to want to forget is too little too late.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...my&btnG=Search

Bottom line is expand the army by 20 brigades and we stand a chance but that also means having thousands of untrained inexperienced troops. All I can do is shrug in frustration and anger.

The simple fact is that we went in unprepared. We cannot change that.

THey were voted in because people wanted a change in direction, not a pullout. A pullout is exactly what the American people don't want - they want someone to fix the problem.

Here is the latest poll on the subject. (The point is, please know your facts before you speak.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1606/iraqoy0.gif

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

the point is, please know your facts, don't try to distort the complete message, do not opportunistically quote out of context and identify your sources for quotes, when you speak.

The complete poll expresses resistance to Bush's course from roughly one half up to two thirds of people who got asked.

One year ago:
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12103.htm

Four months ago:
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/po...war-falls.html

Let's start a poll war, who can show up with more and better links to polls? :-?

Riiiight. I was making a small assesment of American political representation. Harry Reid has a better claim to represent the American people than GWB, seeing as in the most recent national poll, the Dems were more successful than the GOP. That's it.
It was in response to this
Thanks for the assertion that I don't know my facts, it gives me hope and further reason to participate in this thread.
But hope is not a strategy. Oh, look, a balloon.

Maybe what you and Harry Reid ought to understand is that it's not the Democrats or the Republicans or President Bush or Senator Reid alone that represent the American people, but ALL of them together, and we expect these politicos to get along well enough to conduct the nations business in an efficient manner.

First off, the poll in question was one I was not able to link directly to, so I re-edited my post with a screenshot of it instead. It has nothing to do with Bush or his direction. It has to do with the comment of one left wing wacko saying he speaks for all of America to pull out of Iraq - which is what the poll reflects is complete BS - which is in direct contrast to what was posted by Tchocky.

So now that we are 'back' on subject of the particular post, what are you saying exactly?

-S

For what your original post represents, you didn't know your facts. Harry Reid or the Dem's and their pull out of Iraq bill is 'not' what the people of the US think. Where exactly did we go wrong on that issue? It has nothing to do with GWB.

-S

About as well said as it can get right there.

-S

I'm sorry, you guys. But you just don't get it. Witness this story about the suicide bomber who hit the Parliament cafeteria inside the Green Zone today. Read it on Huffungton Post:

Nationalist Members seem to be targeted

Hours ago an explosion ripped through the cafeteria attached to the Iraq Parliament killing at least two members of Parliament and injuring fifteen others.

One of the members killed is Mohammed Awad, a nationalist who is part of the National Dialogue Front, a group wanting one Iraq with a strong central government, an end of the U.S. occupation and any other foreign intervention. They are for re-instating former Iraqi Army soldiers to secure Iraq. They are against privatizing Iraq's oil and decentralizing the oil revenue distribution.

One of the injured is Osama al-Nujafii who appeared with other members of the Iraq Parliament in a recent live video conference between Members of the U.S. Congress and Members of the Iraq Parliament. A woman member of Parliament was injured and it is feared to be Dr. Nada Ibrahim an active member of the National Salvation Front.

Another injured Dr. Salman Al-Jumaily, Member of Iraq Council of Representatives (Parliament), part of the Iraq Accord Front (Sunni) Twaffk, also a nationalist. Salman was one of the Members of Parliament that met with a U.S. Peace Delegation last August. (Go to this link for more info.)

Salman Al-Jumaily Injured

In a very suspicious coincidence everyone killed or injured is part of the nationalist movement who are against the Maliki Government. The Parliament was about to debate the newly proposed Oil Law which these members planned to oppose.

---
Written in collaboration with Raed Jarrar and Jennifer Hicks

So what is this war about again? WMDs? Saddam Hussein as a bloody-handed dictator? Al-qaeda was being supported by Saddam? He was responsible for 9/11? To spread democracy in the Middle East? We're standing down because they're standing up?
We're staying the course? Things are improving throughout Iraq? We're not seeing chlorine gas car bombs in Tal Afar?

This was, is & always will be about control of oil, pure & simple. Those huge permanent bases there are to ensure that. The privatisation law will certainly pass now. So the fix is going in as we speak. We will be there as long as the oil is there & not one moment longer. We have 160,000+ troops & another 100,000+ hired mercenaries there & it's been six years of incompetence, coverups & downright corruption in the conduct of this war. With a record like that, why do you still trust these people to do anything with any degree of honesty or effectiveness? The only reason I can see for this war was to boost oil prices & that is the one thing they have succeeded in.

Hardly. And to make matters worse, the US didn't even get any oil contracts out of it. All oil contracts went to China and India. Kind of puts a crimp in your theory.

-S

i had the same problem, I thought it was my browser or connection. Here it is, completely. Markings by me, making the relative majority more obvious

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/374/snap0039wg7.jpg

This poll suggests that bush no longer has a majority behind him,and that the majority of people is against his course of actions. The other two polls I just linked to are even more drastic in numbers.

Your characterization of Tchocky I find absurd, for what he said about the majority in congress and the voters having created it - simply is the truth.

Your own conclusion on how many americans want no troop withdrawel now, is not exactly formulated, for the poll did not ask if people want a troop reduction, but if they think a troop reduction would influence the risk level of the mission as it is ("does a time table help or hurt troops serving?" = 50% hurts, 27% helps, 15% no effect). That are two very different questions. If you would ask me that poll question, I also would say that it hurts the toops. and I would still demand a timetable and withdrawel. Withdrawel under fire always poses risks.

And even if your interpretation of that polling option would have been right (I don'T think so), then it would colliding with the other options the poll asked for:

a clear majority of 55-65% in 2007 and 2006 disapprove the way Bush is handling the war,

36% think the boost in troops and Bush's attempt of a slightly changed plan during the last months made things worse, 37% think it made no difference (that is almost 3/4 of people thinking that things did not improve, or even turned worse)

a relative majority of 48% (roughly every second person) think that Bush should sign a funding that is linked to a date for withdrawal (43% disagree, 9% said nothing),

And in case that Bush vetoes the democrat's bill, a slight majority of 45% say that congress then should block any funding to force the president to respect the will of majority, while 43% say that funding the troops may be more important then instead of enforcing a release date at all cost (12% unsure).

A president whose course is supported by the people would show different values, I guess.

Again - you missed the point. It is not about GWB that I am talking about.

Also - don't use leftist news medias for your polls. I hate those things. Same people said Gore would win and Kerry would win for president. Conservatives are very unlikely to ever use one from CNN for example. You need a national poll to take the numbers from where they call randomly. I avoid ever posting poll information from one of the news websites.

ANyway, my poll shows (Or should I say - suggests) how this pullout is not what people want. It is a Nationwide survey - not a website go there and show your opinion type place. A Nationwide survey is the only way to get any accurate numbers.

-S

However, one could debate endlessly about sense and nonsense of polls, and could analyse the statistical background, and rate reliability and validity, and so on.

Point is the poll you picked simply does not back the attempt by which you tried to counter a statement made by somebody else. It did not fulfill the use you intended for it.

I leave it here.

I disagree. I think it speaks for itself.

-S