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-   Silent Hunter 4: Wolves of the Pacific (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=202)
-   -   This is probably why SH4 medals are not historical correct ! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110891)

Rykaird 04-06-07 02:03 PM
OK, it's been a long, long time, but I'm pretty sure in one of the old flight sims - either Microprose's F117 Stealth Fighter or LucasArts Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (playing on the US side) - I was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. So it isn't unprecedented to use the real medals.

shad43 04-06-07 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rykaird
OK, it's been a long, long time, but I'm pretty sure in one of the old flight sims - either Microprose's F117 Stealth Fighter or LucasArts Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (playing on the US side) - I was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. So it isn't unprecedented to use the real medals.
This was well before Clinton changed the law

And really whats the diff, wounded medal/purple heart... we know what its for.

WFGood 04-06-07 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drebbel
Maybe the DOD is too busy. But if it is law then any US citizen could use this law to take UBI to court. Or am I wrong ?
I think you are incorrect on that. You have to have standing in order to take something to court. In this case, the US DOD would have the standing, stake or person being wronged so to speak, I would think.

WFGood 04-06-07 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rykaird
OK, it's been a long, long time, but I'm pretty sure in one of the old flight sims - either Microprose's F117 Stealth Fighter or LucasArts Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe (playing on the US side) - I was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. So it isn't unprecedented to use the real medals.
Yes, I remember being awarded one as well, but I cannot remember the game.

Deep Six 04-06-07 02:21 PM
Janes Simulations always had the "Correct Medal"....One of the best games ever...Apache Longbow...had the real deal with medal.....OMG was that a great game...Bought my first full on "Thrustmaster & Throttle" (F16 series)..Cost an arm and a leg in them days solid metal footing...weighed a ton!!!


Deep Six

WFGood 04-06-07 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davejb
Well I don't see what all the fuss is about, I've sunk a variety of Japanese ships - from Shokaku down to a trawler that looked at me funny, and I've had some truly splendiferous medals handed down to me by a grateful admiral. Let's see, I got the wound medal, the patrol medal, the golden wazooney, err, I think I got one for spelling...there was a bronze something in there as well I think .... what's not to like?

I got a real medal (well, I got two real ones, but the second was primarily for not getting caught doing bad things) and my real 'went somewhere moderately at risk' medal has a sheep on it - now, call me silly if you will, but I'd much rather have one with a submarine on it than a sheep. I've always considered in game medal ceremonies a bit lame - I mean, if you got 230 volts from the mouse when your sub got nerfed then maybe, but who cares what a bunch of pixels thinks?
I think for some people it is a matter of 'realism.' Yes, in the real world some medals seem to be given for nonsensical things. I received one for excellence in leadership as a junior officer. (Didn't have a sheep on it though.)

tommyk 04-06-07 02:32 PM
I guess all you have to do is to ask for permission to include them in the game. I think for the positive use like in SH4 it should not realy pose a problem (send them 10 copies of the Deluxe Edition to judge the proper use).

Sailor Steve 04-06-07 04:14 PM
SH1 awarded medals that I think were correct.

Snowman999 04-06-07 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drebbel
Maybe the DOD is too busy. But if it is law then any US citizen could use this law to take UBI to court. Or am I wrong ?
The citizen would have to show standing. I don't think a court would grant it. A US Attorney would need to take up the case . . . if any are working these days.

I'd settle for a game that used a Purple Heart with Jefferson's profile.

Snowman999 04-06-07 04:52 PM
Quote:
FYI, whether it would hold up in court or not is irrelevant. If the Ubi lawyers think there is even a possibility of the content prompting any form of legal action, then they will bar inclusion of the content. The likelihood of someone taking action or the potential outcome of a lawsuit is irrelevant.
Do any of the crew show rank insignia? Officers with railroad tracks, PO crows? We've already seen an obsolete USMC insignia. If the Weapons Officer has bars on his collar that's a more literal violation of this statute than any medal would be.

Snowman999 04-06-07 04:58 PM
Quote:
This was well before Clinton changed the law
Presidents can't do that.

Quote:
And really whats the diff, wounded medal/purple heart...
Immersion. Just like earning dolphins and the award of the Combat Patrol insignia.

"The Submarine Combat Patrol Insignia is a uniform breast pin worn by officers and men of the United States Navy's Submarine Service who have completed war patrols. Such patrols were conducted during World War II.
The pin shows the broadside of a Gato-class submarine. A scroll beneath the submarine holds service stars, one bronze star for each successful patrol after the first or a silver star for five successful patrols. Successful patrols are those so designated by fleet commanders.
The Submarine Combat Patrol Insignia is considered a "secondary insignia" and is typically worn in conjunction with a primary warfare badge, such as the Submarine Warfare Insignia. Personnel eligible to wear other secondary insignias, such as the SSBN Deterrent Patrol Insignia or the Deep Submergence Insignia, may only wear one insignia at a time according to their personal desire."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submari...atrol_insignia

Things like this make the game "real" to those who've served in submarines.

TheSatyr 04-06-07 06:35 PM
Ubisoft has been burned before,they don't want to get burned a second time...and I don't blame them.

Just the threat of a government lawsuit against them could kill the company.

SteamWake 04-06-07 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman999
Presidents can't do that.
They dident call him slick Willie for nothing.

WFGood 04-06-07 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman999
Quote:
FYI, whether it would hold up in court or not is irrelevant. If the Ubi lawyers think there is even a possibility of the content prompting any form of legal action, then they will bar inclusion of the content. The likelihood of someone taking action or the potential outcome of a lawsuit is irrelevant.
Do any of the crew show rank insignia? Officers with railroad tracks, PO crows? We've already seen an obsolete USMC insignia. If the Weapons Officer has bars on his collar that's a more literal violation of this statute than any medal would be.
I think you may be on to something there. Look at Battle of Midway, I thought they perhaps had not researched military/USN rank and uniform insignia for the game, but this could explain it. It has to be pretty easy to obtain permission though, since hundreds of movies and games have used the correct wares.

Snowman999 04-06-07 07:13 PM
Quote:
I think you may be on to something there. Look at Battle of Midway, I thought they perhaps had not researched military/USN rank and uniform insignia for the game, but this could explain it. It has to be pretty easy to obtain permission though, since hundreds of movies and games have used the correct wares.
The test, at least as far back as "Top Gun" has been if the work shows the US military in a truthful, positive light. If it does DoD will bend over backwards through liason offices to aid the producers. They loan hardware, allow access to bases and ships for shooting, and provide on-set technical advisors. "Stargate SG-1" DVD commentary tracks often talk about the Air Force guy who has veto power over things in scripts. Since they want to keep using Air Force gear, ranks, and toys they change whatever is objectionable.

I can't see what in SH4 DoD could have kittens over, except perhaps that mournful opening sequence.


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