Sh3 +gwx is a great simulation and have a very important thing, the dinamic career, the freedom to sail everywhere with random elements and great graphics and the possibility of mod almost all game.

I would like to see sh3 graphics in DW :yep:

In trying to figure out the essential differences between the success of SHIII and DW I'd look at 1) SHIII graphics (duh) 2) dynamic campaign with a unified career and character/crew/boat that developes over time 3) fundamentally more simple vis-a-vis its actual simulation elements and tactical complexity 4) open ended modding system (as opposed to definite restrictions).

And then of course there is the fact that some people are just inherently more interested in WWII-warfare than modern warfare.

Although, really, the only reason to compare SHIII and DW is that they are both nominally related to submarines; other than that, they are about as much the same as Super Mario Brothers and ESIV: Oblivion.

In other words, I feel stupid even making this post. :-?

Cheers,
David

PS And of course the fact that SHIII has a major developer and publisher.

I don't know if number 2 really is fundamental to the success of SH III, but surely numbers 1,3 and 4! make the sim much more future proof.


Actually DW is not so much a submarine sim as it is an integrated 3d naval battlespace sim (but most simmers that come from 688/sc don't see it that way).
Unfortunately for us it stopped short of fullfilling its full potential.
Now where is that opfor pack SCS ? :damn: :arrgh!:
I honestly don't think that UBI could have developed a game like DW.
In any case, great graphics or not, I have my doubts whether DW would ever have achieved mainstream recognition.

I on the other hand don't feel stupid answering you. :p

Yes that helps, but it has its minuses such as "dumb this, dumb that...." for the mainstream crowd.

Luftwolf, you owe it to yourself to at least try SH3, since SH4 is not quite ready.

I have always been more of a fan of the sonalyst line, faithful player of 688/sub commmand/DW, but SH3 with a full 3D crew adds so much immersion, despite its faults.

I have spent hours on the bridge of my virtual u-boat watching the sea and the changing weather. Standing on the bridge of a U-boat, as a weather front is moving in, the waves are getting bigger, the wind is whipping up, lightning flashes on the horizon and you are surrounded by your bridge watch wearing their foul weather gear is the closest I have ever felt to being on a real boat in a PC game...and its even better if you are chasing a convoy on the horizon..

I tend to agree. I've got both SHIII and SHIV. While SHIII is much more developed than SHIV (meaning older and patched up) my interests lie more in the Pacific Theatre during WWII than in the Atlantic. Which is why I couldn't really get into SHIII. Once things get straightened out with SHIV and the modders get to work (which they already have :up: ) SHIV will be a great sim/game. As was previously stated, it sure would be great if DW had the graphics that the SH series has. Acknowledging that this will never happen doesn't bother me at all though.......you can count me as a lifetime member of the SCS club (688i, SC and DW). This is, in no small measure, thanks to our community at large. Guys like LW, Amizur, ML, Bill Nichols, Neal and many others that make up our virtual subsim community. :arrgh!:

*comes back up to comms depth for awhile*

Wow, I've been away awhile... SH4 is out...though not complete...

Anyway, my experience overall with SH3 (even with the latest GWX) has been pretty much dull. Every mission...go here, go there, sink anything you encounter (or...most anything you encounter). Even using manual TDC it still gets pretty repetitive and hence, boring. I tend to rack up lots of renown and save it for the XXI, where I stop hunting merchants and go for warships exclusively...this made it less boring for awhile. Yet, even now it has become boring, even hunting those H/K groups offers little challenge. Where's Destroyer Command 2? I still have the orgiginal version of DC...

While I'll agree that the SH3 environment is far more immersive than SC and DW, SC and DW offer more challenge, even offline (well, with LWAMI anyway...). Especially when hunting an elusive Kilo...who is apt to shoot first and ask questions later...

In truth, if DW had the graphics of SH3/4, the elements we like would likely suffer to balance things out so people could still play the game/simulator without having unplayably low framerates.

I'm gonna stick with DW for awhile, at least...until Harpoon 4 comes out (if ever...).

I don't have a problem with DW's 3D graphics, though I do think it is way behind its time. I'm not the hardcore type who sneers at eye-candies. Fighting Steel, for example, is an instant uninstall for me after about 2 hour's play. But I think DW has just enough eye-candy to catch my attention but nothing more. If the 3D is better I will like it more.

I do have a problem with DW's overall presentation, though. The poor intro and credit movies, the annoying menu music, mediocre menu art, not to forget the totally unfriendly gameplay. For a game of this difficulty, one would expect a whole range (at least 10+) of training missions, covering all aspects of the game.

SH3. I like playing around with this game, even modded the entire in game music with Das Boot soundtrack, dynamic BGM and everything, but, as you pointed out, game play gets repetitive after a while. Too bad I got it early on for 50 bucks...

Well, I have learned now: a game which is worth playing is worth waiting for. I will only get SH4 when it drops within my price range. Before then DW and SC will sustain my appetite. :ping:

Ouch, I hope Frying Tiger has a good sense of humor about himself. :)

Fortunately, you can mod out the music (finiteless sound mods, kind of trippy, but nice and ambient, soothing... something you can listen too for a LONG time without freaking out or getting annoyed) and I don't spend enough time in the menus to really notice, but in fact I kind of like the in game art.

You can also disable the intro and credit movies in the .ini file.

DW feels to me like exactly what it is... a well done 2001 game with a contract simulator built on top of it, and then hacked up and covered with moderately priced artwork for sale to the general public.

Not that this is a bad thing... it's the only way a game like this could be made for available to us, so get down on your knees and prey to your idols of Jamie. :arrgh!:

In regards to the gameplay: well NO one said commanding seven (7) modern naval weapon systems would be EASY! :|\\ :ping:

Cheers,
David

Yes here you have a very good point.
DW is very rough around the little details, little details that add nontheless to the overall enjoyment of the game.
The main problem is not that the gameplay is unfriendly as much as the total lack of a good tutorial.
The manual is excellent, but it leaves out important details : tactics and how to employ the units. :rotfl:
DW has a very steep learning curve, and it is made much steeper by not having any kind of ingame tutorial.

Yes, goldorak. Friendliness and difficulty are two different things.

A game can be difficult and friendly at the same time if it is patient enough to explain itself to newbies.

I guess I misunderstood you.

Well yeah, I'll be the first to point out that although community support for DW is generally very good, the most obvious thing we have all (the developers and the community) overlooked is a comprehensive tutorial mission and documentation set for every platform.

Cheers,
David

Is he the graphic designer?

My apologies if I offend anyone.:o
but it is not my intention to throw accusations around, just providing my uninformed opinion...:yep:

He's the graphics design lead... and also currently a moderator on this forum and the representative of SCS to the community. :know:

I think he's used to it, after all he works for Sonalysts (a police state). :rotfl:

Cheers,
David

Hi!

As for DW 1.04 graphics: It is good with LWAMI 3.08 mod except this nasty Akula 3D model! I have read here it is hard to replace by third-party moddlers because Akula is a playable unit.
Can't Sonalysts make any new Akula desing at all??? :-?

Sonalyst can't make anything anymore I'm afraid ..