Have anyone ever sat down for a moment and really thought about the kind of game that SH4 is?

Its living in the twilight zone of game and simulation. It is immensely complex, and immensely complex software will have glitches and compromises. There is a reason that the japanese game companies stay away from these things :)

If we want super-complex games, we better expect to be disappointed. Investing so many feelings in software, its quite silly but one can't help it.

Now, after having gotten my emo rage out of the system, I think Ill take off that woman's frock again and go out tomorrow and see if I can locate a copy of SH IV.

Well, well, well they got Pong right. What say you about that? I didn't see any pong patches. :dead:

Theres this little phenomena that often occurs in a community before game is released that i like to call the "Next Gaming Messiah" syndrome. Great expectations that no title can meet. WHEN the game doesn't live up to these expectations, people are crushed. Then they get angry, as if slighted on a personal level, and then vent it on a forum.

Then what can occur is umm what i beleive is best reffered to as a "pack mentatliy" or "mob behvior". As the old saying goes, Misery loves company.


In my opinion, having been gaming on PC's for more years then i can recollect, ive learned there exists a simple fact people have a hard time to accept. New games have broken features. New game means, buy it in a couple months. Sad but true. Anyone whos been gaming for any length of time should know this.

Personnaly, i never preorder, and i rarely buy a game fresh on the shelves, because i know theres going to be stuff broken, and id rather wait for the patch, or wait until the price drops. Now, this is my normal behavior, SH4 i preodred, and i did so knowing full well what id' have to put up with, but i preordered it anyway. Hence i have absolutly no excuse whatsoever to bitch, whine, moan or complain because i knew better, and id hold the same standard to anyone whos been gaming for any length of time. To me, this is a reality, and people need to get a grip.

I kinda wanna cut and paste and save this for use at another release date down the road.

I can say that it does seem to get worse after the years go on. It must be the complainers pro creating and messing up the gene pool. :rotfl:

I rember years ago when Master Of Orion 2 was released. I was on a Board like this that the owner of the board was given the game early. Every day we had our noses glued to the screen cause he was giving a play by play. Not one complaint on that board... Of course Master Of Orion 2 was a great game. (don't ge me going of MOO 3 though)

One of the advantages of being "older" is that I was raised to have an imagination. It really helps in these trying times.

Like for instance...

Whenever a new Submarine was built, before the navy took possession, the plankowner crew would have it out for several weeks of sea trials. During this time countless flaws, mistakes and problems were discovered and fixed.

Sometimes the Sonar didn't work properly.

Sometimes the Radar didn't work properly.

Sometimes torpedos didn't work properly

Sometimes thing were just broken. (anyone see where I am going here?)

So back to the yard with a list of what needed to be fixed the Captain and Crew went and, most of the time, they got most of them fixed. But dollars to donuts there has never been a Submarine that was 100% perfect when it sailed into harms way.

So for every little problem I will find I just tell myself "Back to the yard with my list" and my fervent hope that the yard will be able to fix it. But if not, I know I have a good enough crew that we can overcome any faults or problems so we can take the fight to the enemy.

But I guess you have to be older to get your mind working that way.

JCC

Still patiently waiting for the news that it has landed locally.

Yep! Call it a shakedown. Just like the real deal:yep:

Yeah but ya gota understand where we ladies coming from here..... So there i was in my geto sub, happy as larry pressing all the buttons at once when all of a sudden it starts to sink :o

What was worse is the game didnt seem to recognize that my boat had sunk and continued to play... it was almost like the boat was ment to sink... like some sort of man made submersible contraption :doh: Now if thats not a glitch i dont know what is ;)

Personaly I think this thread is in poor taste and is begging for a Complainer vs fanboy flamewar, luckily they arent biting.

Your not seeing the complainers attacking the people who are enjoying the game, why should the people enjoying the game be attacking the complainers.

Try to understand thier perspective, they have expencive rigs and large monitors and they want a sub sim that supports thier expencive rigs and they have been misled leading up to the release (amoung the other things). They have diferent expectations and standards than you. There are some that are taking it a bit to extremes, but so is this thread in the other direction.

By all means start threads about the positive aspects of the game and provide some ballance to the forum. but a thread attacking them for thier expectations and judgements is a bit unfair. You are judging thier emotional state from a few posts on a forum.

I've already decided - come weekend, I'll write my own review of SHIV :p

From a day's (and night's) experience - the game deserves a few kicks for glaring ommissions and glitches, but overall... I'm very happy with it already :)

I for one will:

a. Still buy SHIV - it is on pre-order after all. :yep:

b. Refrain from bashing - until I receive it and play for a week or so - then I will bash constructivly. ;)

We're all in this together!

I'm with you on that. I have already got my game set aside at EB Games. Grab it on Wednesday if she comes in.:up: You know, I already suspected some bugs and glitchs so I'm not let down at all on that aspect.:smug:

Also, to be realistic about SHIV's value... so far from my short but highly-inquisitive experience.

The game would deserve 10/10 for the base - it's got all the components of a great subsim and is a joy to play.

I'd give it another +2 for going above and beyond in far improved campaign presentation and a fantastic TDC.

Then I'd give -1 each for (i) hardware graphics and sound problems, (ii) bugs, (iii) unfinished features and (iv) stupid oversights (like meters instead of feet).

So that leaves us with 10+2-4 = 8/10

I have faith that as with SHIII, patches and mods will eventually gain back those two points and make it a 5-star game!

Also, though on some points a bit more glitchy, the out-of-the-box game is much better than SHIII was on release. The bugs sometimes rear their head, crashes occasionally happen, functions will occasionally fail - not too often, but at points the game needs patience. But if you're willing to put up with these issues, the game will reward.

If you're impatient, dock off one point.
If you're particular about resolutions and Anti-Aliasing - dock off another point.
There you get 6/10 and then maybe it's not so pretty - but I'm telling you, if you're not patient, this game probably wouldn't be worth your attention anyway; and if you're patient, you'll be willing to work with the AA problem as well.

Never forget that in this consumer world, all is ruled by the market laws and like in democracy, the ultime power belong to you, the customer.

Somebody already said that nobody of us would accept to buy a car and have to wait 6 months or more, until to be able to use it, as it was expected from the publicity. A car factory who would act this way, would disappear very soon. Why it is not the case with the PC game industry ? I set the question.

The same PC games companies, when they develop a console game, cannot act this way, because there is actually no possibility to update the game. So they must do something which is reliable and fully finished. This prove they can do it if they will or have to !!!

To my view, to publish unfinished buggy games is not admissible and therefore, I am always sad to see, on forums like this, when unhappy customers express their anger, that often, the community start to fire them. For me, negative expression, as long as it is written without injurious words is totally legitime, even if it may be not pleasant to read for some of you. It deserve the thruth, because, when a newcomer will read the forum, it will get a picture which really reflect the average feeling of the game users.

OK, we are in a free world and nobody need to think like me. Peoples can found normal that a game they buy are just unfinished and buggy. Then, can found normal then, to not really play with the game, but to have paid for being a free beta tester. Then, when the last official patch is finally issued, they will still wait until a freeware Mods like GWX come out and, at last, start to just play and enjoy the game. Most probably in a time the game start to be obsolete !!! In a time they are already waiting anxiously for the next version.

Personnaly, I would prefer that the magic AND UNIQUE time of discovering a new game, would be directly with a very achieved and solid product, who would need a patch only in rare occasions, maybe just to solve a very specific unexpected technical problem, some unfortunate customers have reveiled. For me, a company who publish a game which they perfectly know is unachieved and buggy is cynical and do not respect you. You are just considered good to be "sheared like sheeps".

If you have to wait more to get the game, for me, no problem, I would prefer to wait and have the joy of the discovery, not killed by numerous flaws & bugs. I would be even be ready to pay such a game a bit more higher price.

So, please, do not dissuade peoples who just express their personnal feeling about the game, even if it is negative or even if they fire the publisher. And understand me well, I say the publisher NOT the dev team !

Sorry, Neal, but criticals cannot all the time be constructive. As long as their are not insults and written without injurious words, you should admit them. I find also sad that you open a thread "Bugs report for SH4", even before the game is out !!! For me, this is the greatest victory for those cynical publishers, because it mean now, it is normal that a PC game come on the market unfinished and buggy.

Remember, the final power belong TO YOU the customer. Only YOU can make this change. Think about the joy it would be to play FOR THE FIRST TIME with a game like SH3+GWX.

Oh, one last question. Do you find normal that the publisher get all your money and the Mods developers nothing ? Isn't that an up side down world ?

Regards,

ACS

I really would like to agree with everything you said. I can get quite close :)

I currently do not wish to return my copy, nor have I cancelled the deluxe one I ordered direct from UBI.

The but:

BUT! No game should be knowingly released with any major bugs or show stoppers.

With the odd, rare, exception, console games even highly complex ones do not have major bugs on release.

The publishers, not just UBI, seem to be of the opinion that PC gamers just don't mind getting major out of box bugs. This is just not true.

The one excuse I accept is that there are many PC configs and it is forgivable when, for example, a game crashes or has an issue on mine or someone elses PC providing the majority do not have the issue.

SH4:

Well the resolution bug is a show stopper for me personally and I don't personally think it isn't a "known" issue. I sincerely hope they will correct it but am concerned that they *might* not... should they decide it is a *feature*

The sinking to the bottom issue is not quite a major bug but how they didn't spot it .. well it defies my comprehension anyway. The same is true of most of the other issues people have discovered. These issues require so little QA testing that I'm sure most people think that the release was forced out by the publishers; this imho is what angers many people.

Personally I'm just frustrated that I am now waiting, yet again, for a patch. In this particular case I got the game before the official release date so I really shouldn't complain a great deal. They might release a patch at the end of this week..

yea but at least we had a radio room and could give someone orders 10$ is all I'm gonna shell out for sh4