And anyway why always think one game or one mod or one way to play the game is better than the other ? It all depends from personal taste... Important thing is that each of us is enjoying what he is playing (which can be both)
For instance for me SH4 could have fantastic graphics, nice gameplay, no bugs, I still wouldn't buy it because I have no interest in driving US subs in the PTO. But if I did, I could imagine playing both games, the same way I enjoy playing both NYGM and GWX mods, and enjoy at different times "hardcore" patrols with 100 realism and manual navigation or "relax" patrols with fatigue off and external cams...;)

SH4 has the better graphics, thats for sure, and is -in this respect- more realistic.

What I am afraid of is the gameplay. SH3 came in a pretty arcade-like way, it was realistic, but not as much as us sim-players wanted. It was obvious to me that Ubisoft targeted the arcade-action-player more than the subsimmer, just to name the unrealistic values of deck gun damage and depth charges for example. It was up to the community to mod that game to pefection, as it was done by GWX and NYGM.

Due to the pressure on the developers to reach a large number of players, I fear that SH4 will be in the same state as vanilla SH3, what really would be a shame because after playing GWX for a while, I don't feel the urge to play a vanilla SH4.

One thing to remember I once read on these forums : the hardcore sub simmers community represents around 2% of the total SH3 sales...;)

Yes but I dont know why, because things like GWX are highly realistic and still provide enough action. ;)

I can not comment at the moment. I do not have SH4 as yet. From what I have seen thus far SH4 has some shortcomings but so did SH3. Look at SH3 now:up: Based on that, SH4 will be just as good if not better than SH3....IMHO.

I Feel that if we are even considering this question in such depths
it bespeaks of the flexability and quality of SH3 as one of the
great simulations in gaming history. I expect that as the devs
for sh4 are the same it probably is a little early to condemn it
yet. I am sure that although no sdk was released that we would
all agree that SH3 in spite of that, has proven to be a very moddable
game.

Further though as the community that has loved SH3 put it under our
microscopes taken it apart and put it back together and done it all
again. that we are a biased audience.

we should consider that as what would amount to experts on
SH3 gaming we are bound to be looking deeply and looking with
a critical eye when we look at SH4.

We do not look upon sh4, with the same eyes as UBI
or the new player discovering sub simming for the first time.
what we need I think to consider is that as the attendence
numbers here at subsim grow steadily everyday now. that
SH4 has already contributed to the community prior to our
inevitable contribution to sh4.

as a Highly artful user freindly more arcadelike in depth sim.
it will draw enough new players in all likelyhood to double
the permanent membership here at subsim. That means
a broader base of knowledge and experience all around and
more eyes to look for stuff needed or desired.

I think that as the Game Engine is the one used by the
previous Champion that the pedigree is good and the
potential is there not only for sh4 to evolve into a vibrant
game of the quality in sh3 but also the potential still
exists for sh3 to continue in vitality for many years to
come Parrallel but different than SH4
Mutually polinated by each other.

I believe its been said that for the 100%er's that SH4 wont
work to the same level of total limiting settings and style.(?)
if so, then any of the sh4 noobs that get the 100% bug would
quite naturally look at sh3 as the premier source of experience.

I think the potential for mutual fruition and benefit is there
not in the sense of one being better or worse than the other
but in the sense that being different is just that.

I have studied both campaigns at some length and both
read better than fiction, there is a wealth and richness
in the subject these games deal with that will keep them
valid to players and modders over other games for a very
very very longtime in the world of here today and gone
tommorow video games.

I am sure that History will never forget the name SIlent Hunter.

after all if final fantasy can run eleven versions or better.
MM

[edit] ive just been watching the counter there is a new
attendence record going up about every 15 seconds at
the moment.

SH3 did have shortcomings, so I think we need to wait awhile until a fair comparision can be made. Just look what modding did to SH3:yep: To say the same can't be done to SH4 would be short-sighted.

Edit: Hopefully future patches will fix early bugs in the games as well.

SH3 supermods (GWX or NYGM) add polish to the core gameplay. But the gameplay is still essentually the same regardless of which supermod you use or don't use.

Relief
 

Well the "SH4 bug thread" has gone from bad to worse, now men are 2D thin as paper, useing stadimeter 100% CTD, convoys crossing Japanese mainland, missions that can't be completed, very bad sound problems where by the sounds just keep repeating unless you restart SH4 etc etc, you have to read it to believe it!:cry:
Lucky I phoned EB and was able to cancel the order and get my $100 back, whew!:yep:
Wisest choice I've made!:yep:
Now back to SH3!!:up:

I disagree. It looks wierd. (and no FSAA)

It does, however, have 3D damage and crew on decks. Thats a huge plus.

I know this is stupid but I replaced the order!:damn::88):roll:
I have never been so frustrated with a purchase of a game ever!:oops:

Will probably go and cancel it tomorrow!:yep:
This is what my expectations are for SH4::down: :up: :damn: :D

:rotfl:

In a bit of a quandary there Reece ?

Easy man, easy...:o don't let the thread go off-topic...there is already a set if topics about SH4 in the SH4 forum. No need to complaint about it here.

It costs you $100? Thats insane. I bought SH3 the week it came out for $60. Within a few months it was down to $20.

I wouldn't buy SH4 for $100 either. :p

Because it would turn off other people who haven't been as deeply involved in sub sims? It makes perfect sense that most of the sales go to more "relaxed' players, for lack of a better term. But isn't that MS flight sim supposed to be pretty realistic also? Isn't it a popular title?

They really should be able to appeal to both groups, that's what all of those realism setings are for :yep:

But between one or the other, I'd rather they keep releasing the version that is going to make them lots of money, so they can keep releasing more of them, rather then having them release a super-hardcore version that flops financially from low sales and causes them to drop the title altogether :dead:

I haven't picked up Sh4, but I think I'd like to, after I'm done with Sh3...barely have any time to play games these days.

And probably with time I'm sure we'll see some really amazing (and incredily realistic & difficult) mods for SH4 :yep: