You raciest person.


Don't Panic Kap, that's the first remark from the PC loony brigade & the wet liberals.

Except here they also come not just to take jobs but to sit on their loathsome behinds and scrounge the dole and get social housing so those that do have jobs are crippled by taxation. I mean why does no one ever query why the taxes go up continually and the services they pay for get worse?

You can not put all the blame on immigration and that is a fact. When the Conservatives left office in 1997 this country was in the Black by a region of eight million pounds, now under Labour we are in the Red by that same some of money and don't forget that's your money not the Governments. Also this Government urged people to spend there money to avoid a depression and everyone did which resulted in one trillion in consumer debt and what thanks you got from the Chancellor Gordon Brown? More and more tax headed are way, charming and if Gordon Brown takes over as Prime Minister you can bet your savings he will be after you with more tax.

[quote=STEED. Also this Government urged people to spend there money to avoid a depression and everyone did which resulted in one trillion in consumer debt and what thanks you got from the Chancellor Gordon Brown? More and more tax headed are way, charming and if Gordon Brown takes over as Prime Minister you can bet your savings he will be after you with more tax.[/quote]

And then putting the interest rates up ( I know it's 'independent' but I don't think they disobey Brown)

OK. what im asking is if the middle clas problem has affected anyone here, ive been afected since my dad is in airline industry and most parts are heading to china cuz its cheaper there. so less money for us:nope::nope:, anyone else here either lose their jobs or make less money because of china/india / asian markets?

There are a lot if injustices in the world but one must get up and keep going. As far as illegal aliens. Make them legal and get them on the tax payor rolls like the rest of the tax payers. Most do make minimal pay but still enjoy what the government provides. Instead of booting them out, make them a part. If the illegal refuses then it is time to deport. Just my personal thoughts.

I'm not sure if I buy this... :hmm:

I like that, My personal onpinion is to kick all of 'em out, since they are all here illegally, but something tells me that is a bit impractical:yep: :hmm: :lol: , I like that idea a lot....:up:

Illegal imigrants have and are breaking federal and in many cases state law as soon as they cross the border without permission. Regardless of their condition within their own countries as soon as the enter the US under those conditions they are criminal.

My question would be if you forgive law breakers in this case on what other laws are we willing to give people a pass? Child molestation, discrimination based on race, premeditated murder. What good is the rule of law if it doesn't apply to everyone equally? Once anyone crosses into the US tey are subject to US law and if one crosses into the US illegaly they are criminal (they broke US law) and are subject to deportation which is also US law.

Many would argue that the law is discriminatory, that is not the case because it does not point to any pparticular group as criminal. If as a citizen of the US, you disagree with the current law I would suggest you contact your elected representative and express your wishes.

The way I see it is:
We are all brothers. There is no reason why Joe America should have a job but Joe Mexico should be banned from having a job.
There should be a level playing field for everyone to live and work where they like.

I have lost a previous job to a Latvian worker before, but only because I wouldn't accept a pay drop.


My view is not just a socialist view. It is a capitalist view because it is good for the business to have broad range of job seekers.

But they are still breaking the law!

I agree that there should be a (somewhat) level "playing field," but if they are immigrants, why won't they come legally? I have absolutaly no problem with legal immigrants. Infact, I welcome them. Why should "Joe Mexico" deserve a job for being a criminal?

A bump for this.

I frankly didn't see a remotely accurate representation of socialism from either of you. I'm a socialist myself and frankly both of your views I find ridiculously grounded in ideological rhetoric which I doubt you've entirely examined.

Then again I'm not a mainstream enough socialist to entirely ally myself with either side (I call my position pragmatic socialist - I was not indoctrinated into socialism, I arrived at it by the way of experience & critical thought). A couple of months ago I came close to joining the Communist party but stepped back after realizing that they were too stuck in ideological considerations (many of which are either false, overly-idealistic or currently-irrelevant) for any real progress to be made.

I consider socialism simply an equalitarian agenda which places the well-being of the broader society and sustainability of said society at the forefront, and seeks to prevent the abuse of society or any of its elements by an individual or entity on selfish motivations (the government that waste gate so fears included). I personally have trouble with scientific socialism (i.e. communism) on a number of its ideological points, including its strictly class-based rhetoric which I don't think is particularly relevant today, or at least needs to be approached more pragmatically.

Shall we take this to another thread?

:damn::damn::damn::damn: im surprised this went off topic from middle class erosion to socliasm vs capitalism, i accidentally dozed off off topic talking about socialiasm.. socialism is GREAT, capitalism is GREAT, bla bla bla is GREAT,


BACK TO ON TOPIC OR I WILL REQUEST THIS TO BE LOCKED IF IT DONT, original point of this thread was to find out your views on how middle class jobs are being done in china and asian markets, and some people say illegal aliens from mexico, i want to find out ur views, poinions and/or experiences if u have em ok?

Says you, the one most notorious for going off-topic :p


I was responding to points raised at length by you and waste gate, that's all. Didn't mean to take it off-topic; I've little to say on the immigrant issue. I think there's ways of enforcing a fair and proper immigration system, but noone is willing to take it - perhaps for the very reason that it produces cheap, easily-coerced workers.

Have not been personally affected. I do think there are positives in outsourcing, though. I see foreign investments like these as stabilizing relations and reducing the chances for conflict. But it does suck for the people affected.