SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - Targeting realism

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- - Targeting realism (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=105331)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawRecruit

I also use the WO when surfaced. I know he computes the solutions very quickly, but from my reading I get the impression that the WO would be taking constant readings, bearings, etc, so I just imagine that he is doing this and is simply telling me what the current data is when I ask him.

This is the way I do it too. Early war when doing surface attacks (which are fairly easy if you're patient) I let the WO do the attck while I watch escorts and con the boat. I also let him id ships because--well--I'm basically lazy and find flipping through the book to do it manually.

Now a little bragging: I'm a better shot than my WO :yep: .

Cheers!!!

It would be nice if you could select exactly how much help your WE will give you. Instead of write him off or having him do all the work, you could have him determine only one or two things (ID, AOB etc.) and leave the rest to you. I am pretty sure that uboat commanders had something to do with the targeting process and not only when submerged.

From all the reading I've done, whilst on the surface the Kaleun merely picks targets, which is what you do through the UZO. Of course, some grogs may pop up and say otherwise, but that's certainly the impression I get....

I don't use WO assistance and for many GWX patrols I haven't even manned the WO station. But recently I discovered a wonderfull feature: WO is the guy who's going to tell you "We're under attack", "We've been spotted" and for a few recent patrols when in combat area I place my navigator guy in the WO station just for hearing these reports. I don't like being shot at and not even know about it (happened to me earlier). I think that should be definitely reported by the watchman, but I have to take it as it is...

EDIT: I think it's also WO who tells you "A destroyer in attack run!", as I've met this report only after I started manning his station. Never even knew before about it's existance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMilton

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Zelda

Target speed is the most important item in manual targeting. That said,

Plot target's initial position and note the time.
Plot subsequent target positions and plot target course.
Assuming you are on an intercept course, determine the AOB at your intercept point. With your periscope/uzo (bearing) at zero, enter this AOB into the target data computer. Also remember that the AOB most accurately reflect "starboard" or "port" which tells the TDC if the target is travelling left or right across your bow. As long as the target remains on this course, you can rotate the periscope/uzo and the TDC will always have the correct AOB.

Now, determine target speed. Note the most recent position of your target and the time. Measure from your first target position to your latest position. Determine the time interval between the two plots and use this formula: kmeters x 32.5 divided by minutes = estimated knots.
Enter this estimated speed directly into the TDC. If you make several measurements from the targets initial position as you move towards the intercept point, you'll have a good estimate of target speed before you're ready to launch.

AOB will not change as long as target course remains the same, just update target speed if it changes. In this method, you do not even need to concider range, it is not a factor. Accurate range will only affect the stop watch for the estimated impact time of torpedo.

I've have hit targets in excess of 6 kmeters with this method. Longer shots like these require a slow torpedo speed to cover the greater distance. Set the slow speed on the torpedo and the TDC will calculate the accurate offset angle for torpedo launch.

I hope this is helpful.

:rock: Excellent description ! Range is indeed not needed and you can even hit targets that you don't see, due to fog or because it is in your interest to stay submerged.

That method works, keep in mind that your course can't change either. So you either don't change course or set up the shot based on a future position. I'll usually set up the shot while I'm taking readings on his speed and course.

Yes I've used this method to hit ships lining up the periscope to read the hydrophones reading. I was close to the ship 400-600m and it was a sormy night no visability, I had gotten good fixes on him earlier and used this to line up a good position shot. I assumed the hydrophone's reading would be aft of the actual ship location and offset my scope a little foward of the hydrophone's reading. 2 torps and one hit. She sunk. The missed torp went in front and the second went amidships. That made me think that the hydrophone reading is actually from amidships, not where the screws are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mheil

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrMilton

:rock: Excellent description ! Range is indeed not needed and you can even hit targets that you don't see, due to fog or because it is in your interest to stay submerged.

Thanks, DrMilton & mheil for your nice comments.

You can change your course slightly for a better attack position without determining a new AOB. As your boat turns, the new bearing is reflected in the TDC's computation; thus turning the boat (changing course) acts the same way to the TDC as turning the periscope/uzo.

For instance, you've established the AOB to course intercept and have loaded it into the TDC along with target speed. You know that you want to have a torpedo run of approximately 8oo meters, so you've manually put that into the TDC. But as the target approaches some 2000 meters away, you're on too steep an angle for a 90 degree hit. So, slowly turn (5 degree rudder) toward a more perpendicular angle to target's course as it approaches. There is no need to change any information in the TDC. With this attack position, you're so close that any minor change in true AOB would be minimal. Torpedo Los! when the distance and angle are optimum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Zelda

As your boat turns, the new bearing is reflected in the TDC's computation; thus turning the boat (changing course) acts the same way to the TDC as turning the periscope/uzo.

It's possible I can't understand something because of poor English skill, but it seems to me that what you wrote is not true. It's almost everyday for me to set my TDC long before final approach to my target _before_ changing my course by 90 degrees. I set the TDC like I was on the position to shoot, then I turn my bow to the target and shoot the torpedo (I always remember NOT to lock my UZO/scope on the target while turning; in fact I almost never lock anyway). So if the TDC was affected by turning my ship, my settings would fail to work. But they work, so my opinion is turning the boat doesn't affect the TDC settings.

Of course it would work other way if I had my UZO locked on target all the time, that's obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abd_von_Mumit

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Zelda

As your boat turns, the new bearing is reflected in the TDC's computation; thus turning the boat (changing course) acts the same way to the TDC as turning the periscope/uzo.

You are absolutely correct, turning the boat does not affect the previously set TDC settings. The periscope/uzo does not need to be lock just as long as you aim at the target before you fire. Don't forget to open the outer doors first!