Well Said :up:

and modified Balaos served in the US Navy into the Sixties.:up:

The US Fleet sub during ww2 was the best submarine for long range patrols any where, bar-non".. there were none better in the whole world...(Truth) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ie_winner1.gif

And let's not forget that some Tench class boats (still the same essential design) are still in service! Example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cutlass_%28SS-478%29

Superior German (over) engineering is one of the major things that lost them the war mind you.

German boats were well constructed enabling them the operate deeper and more resistant to damage. US boats on the other hand were able to operate for longer periods and were equipped with this in mind.

High quality engineering is a German trait in general. Though I agree, insofar as the war effort was concerened, their penchant for excellency in engineering dealt them a massive and irreparable blow. This was true with most all equipment Germany designed and manufactured for the war. This was definitely one time where the quality over quantity mantra hurt them.

Indeed it is. And it's usually often not required, still the ridiculously expensive maintenance makes BMW half their profits - so there's method to the madness.

I can't argue with that, the Germans have always been excellent engineers.

For "The Ultimate Driving Experience," I don't mind paying a little extra. Sure, I've had to pay a premium on the odd part, but my experience overall has been great. Their automobiles are a joy to own (and even more fun to drive) and they enjoy a healthy resale value.

I am not sure that VIIC and GATO is fair, maybe VIIC and a Balao is closer to being an even comparison, both include wartime improvements.

How about the GATO vs XXI? ;)

/tongue planted firmly in cheek

I only meant a comparison between the two subs from the standpoint the Gato was the main sub in the Pacific and the VIIC the main sub in the Atlantic. I didn't mean so much which was the better sub, but which was best for its TO. My fault for not being clear, but I'm enjoying the thread anyway. Thanks, guys! :rock:

Haha.

How about XXI vs. Guppy then? :p
(not quite fair, of course, since Guppy was in many ways an upgrade based on what's been learned from the XXI)

One thing not mentioned yet. The difference between the ASW capabilities of thier respective enemies. I suspect the Gato's would have had a tougher time if Japanese ASW was as good as Allied. Thoughts?

And of course the Fleet submarine wasn't used in the way it was envisioned at the time of its design...

i do agree that its apples and oranges but that doesn't make this discussion any less interesting, and it does make me think more about all these wonderful boats!

Cheers,