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-   -   GWX circle of death (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104084)

andy_311 01-19-07 04:23 PM

Deep is great when you got deep water,but sometimes you just don't have it.
At the momment most of the Capatains here are in the atlantic,but if your lucky and survive,and get transfered to somewhere where it's not that deep (and there are places like that)start praying,but that's in 44 anyway.

AVGWarhawk 01-19-07 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan Edvard
I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

If day time and your in a bad position, get the general track of the convoy. Make your track in such a way that you are out of sight and can flank speed to the head of the projected path of the convoy. If at night stay surfaced and come in at an angle as the convoy is coming towards you. If day time submerge, silent and come in at around 40m until the lead DD passes you. Go to scope depth and prepare to sink some ships. Exit the back of the convoy very deep and silent. Rinse and repeat.

Gezoes 01-19-07 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag
Welcome to the Doom Club!
You're probably doing something to attract trouble. Get spotted by aircraft, or making too much noise. NEVER approach a convoy at more than 3 knots. Allways approach in SILENT running (keyboard Z). The moment you see an airplane dive. Same with any warship.

In my last patrol, must of my contacts were with warships. But I did sink one destroyer. Had to skulk away back to Kiel with a heavily damaged boat and low tonnage.

Read the manual and visit my website.

Be afraid, very afraid :roll:

Indeed. I was trapped near Hartlepool by 4 DD's. Forward torpedoes gone, all periscopes destroyed, flak guns too. All I have left is the rear tubes, deck gun and the bridge USO. Three casualties but the rudder thing helped. After skipping off the seabed during DC'ing I went to 1 or 2 kts at 6 degrees rudder. I slipped away, on my way back to port. No more shallow waters for me.

That's a new career. Patrol 1. Okt 1939. Sank nothing.

:huh::rotfl:

Albrecht Von Hesse 01-19-07 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan Edvard
I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

This is kind of butchered regarding the images, but I just slapped it together as I'm on patrol at the moment. I'll try to do a better tutorial later for convoy interceptions.

The key thing is to get into position, unseen and unspotted, before they reach you. If you try chasing after them you're virtually doomed to fail.

So, let's take one example: you've gotten a contact report (I'll cover running across one later, when it happens again for me :p )

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ntercept_1.jpg

To plot an intercept first you have to try determining the convoy's future path (this isn't foolproof, as convoys can, and will, make course changes as they travel). I use the ruler line and, starting at the middle of the convoy mark out a line colinear with the convoy's 'trail'. The length at this point is not important; just make it rather long to start. If you need aid in drawing a straight line, use the compass and click the center at the back of the convoy 'tail' and draw the radius directly over the convoy tail outwards.

The final length of the convoy path requires tweaking, and is determined by how far you have to travel. Making it 25km long is no good if you're 300km away. Here's an example of how to determine the right distance: if the convoy is traveling 7kt, and you make the estimate length 75km long, if your distance to get there is 150km or less you're ok (since flank speed is faster than 14kt). You want to arrange it so you get in location no less than 18km in front (and once radar comes into play, that changes drastically!) to keep from being visually spotted. I normally shoot for 30km out, to give me time to make hydrophone checks as they advance to forewarn me if they've made a course change out of my line of sight.

Once you've decided on the length/convoy travel distance, mark two circles: one at the start and one at the end, each the same size. These are your line-of-sight warning areas. In clear daylight make them 18km. In rough weather maybe 12 - 14 km. At night, with no moon, you might get away with 8km. Bigger is better, you can't go wrong that way.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ntercept_1.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ntercept_2.jpg

Once you've determined the line-of-sight area at the end point, you can plot your course. By plotting your course so that your final, pre-intercept turn is tangent to the line-of-sight circle you're doing your best to prevent the convoy's lookouts from spotting you as you race ahead to the ambush.

Your next course change is directly to the center of the last line-of-sight circle. How far you go in before your final turn is dependant on several things: weather, time of day, the escort size . . . your nerve. ;)

I'll draw a second circle at the convoy path line end, its size the distance away from the convoy center I wish to be. That's normally been 2.000 - 3.000 meters out. Keep in mind that you've marked the convoy's path, and that path is for the middle of the convoy. If it's four lanes wide, each 1km apart, the outer lanes will be 1.500 meters to each side of that path . . . and the escorts range even further outwards.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ntercept_4.jpg

Once I reach that second circle I make my final pre-attack positioning. In this instance I turned to face back along the convoy path.

I wish I could have done a better pictoral job here, but hopefully this'll help give you one idea how to catch a convoy. :)

Madox58 01-19-07 08:59 PM

Something that helped me when I started.
Instead of try to get the convoy itself, I watched it's path.
Then moved in behind it because another one WILL be coming down the pike
sooner or later!
Now you are already setup and should have no problem with your intercept!

FIREWALL 01-19-07 09:35 PM

Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?

AVGWarhawk 01-19-07 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL
Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?

Thats easy, stay ashore:D

Ducimus 01-19-07 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL
Is it possible to create a mod " avoiding DD 101 " to add to the academy?


I was thinking about making a post illustrating how sonar and detection works (with pictures) for those that didnt read the manual. I just have to add, everytime a thread like this comes up, i get giddy. :88)

j_o_nn_y 01-20-07 06:15 AM

How do you add those rulers on the map showing you the distance and knots?.

Brag 01-20-07 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan Edvard
I know I am no authority what-so-ever, but my problem with approaching a convoy at 2-3 knots is that I cant get into the convoy. I usually spot it some distance of, and really have to speed up to be able to collide with it, or else it just goes straight past me, at a large range.

To attack a convoy, you must position yourself ahead of it. You do this by racing on the surface, out of sight of the convoy. You have to plan and properly estimate where the convoy will at the time of your arrival to the place of ambush. You can dive ocasionally to check on the convoy's position.

Once you are on the convoy's path: you wait quietly and let it come to you. It is scary. Check my website to see how to attack a convoy. Best of luck :up:

Brag 01-20-07 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gezoes
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag
Welcome to the Doom Club!
You're probably doing something to attract trouble. Get spotted by aircraft, or making too much noise. NEVER approach a convoy at more than 3 knots. Allways approach in SILENT running (keyboard Z). The moment you see an airplane dive. Same with any warship.

In my last patrol, must of my contacts were with warships. But I did sink one destroyer. Had to skulk away back to Kiel with a heavily damaged boat and low tonnage.

Read the manual and visit my website.

Be afraid, very afraid :roll:

Indeed. I was trapped near Hartlepool by 4 DD's. Forward torpedoes gone, all periscopes destroyed, flak guns too. All I have left is the rear tubes, deck gun and the bridge USO. Three casualties but the rudder thing helped. After skipping off the seabed during DC'ing I went to 1 or 2 kts at 6 degrees rudder. I slipped away, on my way back to port. No more shallow waters for me.

That's a new career. Patrol 1. Okt 1939. Sank nothing.

:huh::rotfl:

Congratulations on your survival, that's what counts. Live and learn to get the tonnage later :up: :up: :up:

Torpex752 01-20-07 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond6751
Try this. Go as deep as possible, slow, and set your rudder to 5 degree turn in any direction. You can vary this with 10 degrees. You can even zig and zag slowly, back and forth every 5 minutes along a path line.

The escorts seem to have trouble with this rudder stuff. When they get a fix on you they go for a spot in the sea. You keep moving away at minor degree turns.

This is more difficult with multiple escorts but try it.

Late in the war in the pacific the Japanese used this similar tactic for convoys and warships called "constant helming". SH1 modeled it perfectly. It makes standard TMA tracking nearly impossible because you dont know if/when the ship will increase or decrease its turn rate, somthing you need in order to get a good solution.

Frank :cool:

L_DOG 01-20-07 07:33 PM

i think those AI gots night vision Ja ?
from 8000 mtrs and at night he changed course to come after me in the IRISH SEE.
DIRTY BUGGERS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...c-Stroh-05.jpg

Torpex752 01-21-07 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L_DOG
i think those AI gots night vision Ja ?
from 8000 mtrs and at night he changed course to come after me in the IRISH SEE.
DIRTY BUGGERS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...c-Stroh-05.jpg

Thats a fair detection by radar, if it was radar.

Wulfmann 01-21-07 11:19 AM

My TGW1.1 which took me months of sensor tweaking was harder than GWX. I had to submerge in the darn pen after D-Day to leave and return submerged. I was hounded everywhere and was a nervous wreck nearly constantly.
Lord it was great!
GWX is easier and I actually managed to complete a 1943 career to the end of the war and it was hell.
My point?
IMO, nearly every post that slams GWX as being too hard is simply people needing to be a better Kaleun.

No, I won't go back to that tougher TGW1.1,
I will simply tweak this wonderful GWX to be harder as I scratch my head reading about the "Girly Men" asking to make live easy.
Life was not easy for the U-Boats and even the "Happy Times" were harder than most naval service in any country.

No offense, it ain't GWX it is you!

A little tough love, nothing more. Suck it up and start working on what you need to do to survive and kill the English and not assume a detuned GWX is what is required.

Maybe someone can detune GWX and call it the Grey-Pansies-X!

Not trying to be too hard merely suggesting if you think it is too hard you need to be asking what you can do to improve your tactics and not diminish this good as it is if anything it should be harder, best thing that has happened ever to any sub sim add on to date.
(The GWX guys are trying to be nice. I don't have to!):rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Wulfmann


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