This is all very sobering news indeed. This is the Clinton/Democrat chickens coming home to roost. As foolish as the Clinton administration was, I don't think they meant for this supposed peaceful transfer of space related technologies to be used in an miltary related ASAT program. What a bunch of fools. And the people who vote for them..fools all. This is how the Democrat voter put their own families into danger. By voting for a party that is intent on allowing our technologies to get in the hands of our enemies. Make no mistake, these technologies used in accurate launch vehicles being flown in a precise manner to precise orbital planes are from the Democrats. Clinton's Commerce Department changed the rules on "dual use" technology in the 90's, making sure China got this technology. It took a Republican president to change it.

Sickening. Absolutely sickening. Another example of a Democrat selling out our national security/military technologies. And now we pay the price. Good job Clinton. :down:

If the Republican party didn't have so many perverts, criminals, a arrogant rubber stamping do nothing congress, and a lying president maybe the Republicans would be still in charge.

Well, this is going to move in a very productive direction. Looks like this thread is going on the watch list.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

That statement is made more out of frustration. It seems that everytime there is a Democrat President, they are willing to hand over some aspect of national security to hostile elements. Jimmy Carter gives away the most strategic waterway in our hemisphere (Panama Canal), with nothing to show for it. Nothing returned. And China is now operating both sides of that canal thanks to Bill Clinton not stopping the bid for both ports from that Chinese government owned "business". Bill Clinton allows hostile foreign entities into our national labratories. Clinton also changes rules built into the system that protect sensitive military technologies from being used by our enemies against us. All so he can "reach out" or get some money for the DNC. Heck Bill Clinton is the best honorary President China ever had.

Now this "dual use" space technology handed over by Bill Clinton's administration is being used against us militarily. And the frustration is, Democrat voters can't seem to see this inherent flaw in their party. That they vote for people who openly betray them and their families to hostile foreign interests. They want their free-bee health care, abortion on demand, gay marriage, federalized everything, unions galore, etc. etc., but fail to see that it won't mean a thing if these same people who promise them the world give away these elements of national security.

I said so many criminals. That means more. Am I wrong anywhere?

The real intent behind this was a good idea but it got subverted.
From reading up on this dual use thing the intentions wasn't to give way the farm. What it was was these corporations saw a way to make big bucks and sold this technology to the Chinese and Russians. The corporations were caught after the fact but I'm not sure if they were punished or not which doesn't really mean squat seeing as how after the fact is too late. Like I said before Clinton should have gone to jail for this. In fact I think he still should be charged with treason. But to blame a political party is ludicrous. All I have to say is why didn't the Republican controlled Senate block it?

free-bee health care = Every American should have health care as there right. America pays the most for the least care of all modern nations. Why?
Politics!

abortion on demand = I think the term you mean is Pro Choice. Who are you to put your choice on anyone else? It's none or your business and it's none of mine. It's that womens body. Will the next step be to outlaw masturbation because sperm isn't being used to impregnate and all those little soldiers die?

gay marriage = Exactly how does two gays that love each other hurt you or I? A gay is not gay by choice. What right do you or I have to penalize their lives because of what they are?

unions galore = You hold Democrats responsible for unions?

Sounds like you want to force your morals on a lot of people. Not exactly my America buddy. :down: :)


PS Panama Canal is not in the United States and the cold war is over.

Which is why I say fools. You hand somebody who says they want to kill you a gun, chances are they'll shoot you. Fools. It doesn't matter your intentions, learn from your mistakes. It's unfortunate the Democrats never seem to. They're dangerous as a party in power because they do things like this. The Republicans may not be great, but they won't do stupid suicidal stuff like this.

Health-care-- Heathcare is not a right. Yes it would be great if everyone is insured. And everyone should be insured. But it is not a constitutional guarantee. There needs to be reform so we can get everyone covered, but the reform needs to be done in the private sector. And it would also help if we had some tort reform as well. The government has never been able to deliver anything of value at a reasonable cost other than national defense. I don't know why Democrats think government can run their healthcare when they can't manage anything else.

abortion on demand---Yes. Abortion on demand. Not "Pro-Choice". A good choice would be to think about the results of your actions before making it. And living with the consequences. It's a wonder why the "choice" is never thought about before the action with lefties. :hmm:

gay marriage-- This is a topic I don't wish to get on just like abortion. But we as a society have a right to define our institutions. As of now, we don't want gay marriage to be legalized. We have voted on it in many states. That's how democracy works. Live with it. Some see it as a breakdown in societal norms. Get over it.

unions-- Have outlived their usefulness and purposes. And yes, Democrats are the beneficiaries of union organization. And the teacher's unions sure have done a bang up job with public education, don't ya' think?

Sounds like you are an anything goes, moral relativist. Not my America at all, pal. In my America, we lock up criminals, we defend the country, we teach right and wrong, and we promote responsibility and living with the choices of your actions.

PS. The Panama Canal is a very important strategic waterway built by the USA and owned by a U.S. trust until Carter gave it away with nothing in return. This important waterway could mean life or death in a struggle in the Pacific Ocean. But of course you make excuses for it because you probably want to soothe your soul so you can continue to vote for these Democrats who like to give hostile foreign elements our national security treasures. All so you can continue your moral relativism and voting yourself gifts from the public treasury.

Ask the American Medical Association. As doctors, these folks have a vested interest and perhaps their opinion about giving away their services are up for discussion. Doctors spend a great deal of personal resources both monetarily and educationaly to do their jobs. Are you willing to give up that quality of care because those who spent much money and time can no longer make a living? Are you willing to give up the best medical care on the planet for your loved ones for mediocre care?



What about the choice of the unborn who are murdered at the rate of 25,000 per week. How can anyone object to the deaths of any other subset of the population when they allow, no promote by using the term 'Pro Choice' this kind of genocide?

Can say that homosexual unions promote procreation, contribute to society by promoting healthy social relationships (you critisized Rep Mark Foley for being gay
even after it became clear that the intern was of legal age and perhaps gay himself).


I don't know what this is about so I will leave it alone.

This sounds like the same question, but the shoe is on the other foot.

Thank you for your patiences and consideration

While I think he did arrange some transfers, this was a orbital satellite. Using ground-based radar, you can develop a highly accurate orbital profile. Not be belittle the Chinese achievement, but it's much different from a 30-minute ICBM profile (boost, coast and guide by star-check, entry). They did this without Clintonian aid.

The pressure is on Taiwan, because the Chinese don't want any other break-away states. That's why China is making all these military ventures. Their northwest is something like 50% muslim, and they have a high concentration of Koreans in the south. Not to even consider the rural tribal farmers in their central-west, whom they are just now attempting to....no other way to say it....civilize. Literacy, telecommunications, roads. For the love of God, dentistry. Oh my God, dentistry. China needs denists. They need to burn down all the martial arts schools, and construct dentistry schools.

Stop shooting down satellites, start mandating village dentists. I'd go with that assessment.

Nope. As much as you'd like to believe that, Clinton's Commerce Dept. gave them the capabilities you saw demonstrated. Just because they called it commercial use technology then, doesn't mean it can't be used in military applications. All the Clinton Administration did was redefine the terms. Remember, this administration didn't know how to define the meaning of the word "is". I am an engineer in this field. The principles applied to guidance systems in ICBM's apply to vehicles lifting commercial payloads. You're totally and dangerously wrong. And I'm afraid there's too many Democrats that are deluded in the same way. They'll make excuses, defend Clinton's actions, all so they can soothe their own conscience, so they can continue to vote for these dangerous wretches who sell their families security down the river. And for what???? "Free" healthcare?? Gay marriage?? "Free" abortion on demand?? Is that all worth your national security?

So you don't know why the Republican Senate didn't at least try to block it?
This is the 21st century, not the 18th. It should be a right. The HMO's own the american health system and a lot of politicians. The private sector isn't going to give that up.
If you can do it for one why not another?
Umm, the republicans lost the elections because they were useless and didn't do their job so come again.
So let me get this straight. You think you should only have sex to make babies. Go live in the vatican until you can deal with the real world then come back.
Who is we? I haven't heard of a national vote. I've seen Bush in action on the subject. How many states have voted?
Tell me how they have outlived their usefulness and why Democrats are beneficiaries of unions then I can give you a logical reply. Me personnaly I think some unions are greedy so and so's(auto workers for one) and have dug their own graves, but a lot serve a purpose.
Education: That is squarely on the goverment. Teach to test, tax cuts, budget cuts, not enough teachers. How many states are complaining that the fed is not providing for No Child Left Behind. Many initial supporters of NCLB have since broken with the Bush Administration over what they claim is the White House's failure to adequately fund its own programs. Don't blame the teachers for the failure of parents to bring the hammer down on our elected officials. It's easy to blame it on teachers when parents aren't doing their jobs. My youngest gets her bachelors in Biology in May then on to her masters. Deans list each semester and yes I'm ultra proud.
Fraid not I'm value-pluralism and thats America. You sound like a morals deacon in the catholic church. As for the rest you make me laugh. I have three adult kids who don't do drugs, two don't drink, none smoke, did well in school, never in trouble in school and never had trouble with the police, never unemployed for even one day and pay their bills. I'd say they have moral and ethical values and know the difference between right and wrong. I'm an American adult. I don't need a goverment to tell me how to live. If I were a Democrat I'd sat I'm an average Democrat.
I defended my country for eighteen and a half years dragging my family around and living in one place or another no longer then two or three years. So I think I can say that each member of my family have paid the price for defending our country. Can you say the same? The vast majority of soldiers are Democrat. I guess the Republicans aren't as patriotic.
Your sore because we didn't get anything for the panama canal? Grow up. 27,500 workers are estimated to have died during construction of the canal. I'd say thats a more than fair price to pay. The only thing the Chinese do is operate. That's all we did. All we have to do is send a force to take and secure which we would have to do anyway in event of war so where is the defence issue? There isn't one.
No Democrat tried to cover the purchase of all American ports by a terrorist state like your Republicans and Republican president did. Democrats and the people stopped that stupidity. Which party consistently has the biggest bank roll in elections? The Republicans do. Where does that money come from? Corporations. So who benefits monetarily from bribes and err donations the most? Republicans do.

Brad, I don't think you're aware of how these things happened. The Republican Senate didn't know what was going on until after the fact. Like I said, the Clinton Administration redefined what was commercial use/military use/dual use. They never had a chance. The Clinton administration was closed on this. The Pentagon protested once they caught wind of it. But it was too late in most circumstances. I know people in Loral right now that can tell you it was a fast and furious couple of years. And no press whatsoever. But that's OK, continue to soothe yourself.

And sorry, healthcare is not a constitutional right. If you want it to be, change the constitution through the process. What you are vying for is economic fascism through governmental healthcare control. I'm responsible for everyone else's healthcare? Why not their TV sets? Why not give everyone a right to own a government paid for car? You need one to get to work, right? Oh, I know we need reform. But government/socialist healthcare ain't the solution. And yeah, the Republicans lost. They deserved to. But the Democrats push for this type of nonsense (and much more) is the reason they'll be back. The Republicans lost because people lost faith in them, not because annybody gained faith in the Democrats.

I refuse to get more into unions or abortion. For now. But I will say that choices in life have consequences. Democrats like to remove bad consequences using my dime. That's what I'm against in principle. In terms of education, I will say you're right with one thing. Government in education is the problem. Education is more of a local concern. That's the way it was intended.

pluralism is just another way of saying "I have no core values". Anything goes. And you're quite lucky St. Brad. You're kids turned out good. Most people who do not give their kids solid values and knowledge of "right and wrong" have problems.

And this is the biggy. You say:

Great. I agree. But why can't you apply that to economic freedom and life choices as well. You don't want a government to tell you how to live. But you want a government there to bail your behind out of every bad choice you and others make. All with my dime. Either you're free, or you're not brad.

And sorry, but if you can't see the Panama Canal situation for what it is, you're lost. You're wonderful Democrats gave away a very important strategic waterway, for nothing. We may need it again. And the very people we may need it against now control it through a state run company. All due to Bill Clinton's lack of focus on this area after we left.

P.S. Yes, I served my country as both enlisted and officer. For 12 years. I continue to be in the IRR today. I went to 3 stateside locations and was deployed to Europe for 3 years. I went on deployment to Turkey. So what's you're point?

No, luck didn't come into it. I actually was gone for most of their upbringing until their mid teens so I have to give credit to my wife. She's quite a saint.:lol:
I'm off untill the morrow.