Silent Hunter V,The Civil War:You as Captain of the Hunley must attempt to sink the Housatonic without 1) Having your sub dive for no apparent reason whiping you and your crew out or 2) Getting your explosive tipped spear thingy stuck on your sub after hitting the Housatonic.

It also come with a bonus Revolutionary War scenario: The Turtle vs the Royal Navy.

It also features interviews with Leonardo DaVinci and Cpt.Nemo. :rotfl:

We must think about the great Ubi graphics characteristics. An almost global underwater detailed terrain,with mud areas, sand,and big submarine canyons and corridors to be used by submarines to avoid being detected. All this,in conjunction with the full capability to try to hunt or intercept a big Carrier Battle Group,etc, and having the opposite side to try to avoid it at all.

I really think Ubi. development team should start thinking about it once the SH4 reaches the stores.
If not,maybe some other good naval developer could think about it.....;)

Thanks a lot.

:up:

The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me are:

They are entirely hypothetical - there have not been any significant conflicts at sea on the scale of WWII Atlantic/Pacific. Hard to be immersed in something that's never happened - you don't get that "gee, I'm getting a feeling for what this was like" when it's never been!

They are 'sterile'. It's all high-powered sensors and wire-guided or self-guided. Get yourself in the right spot and the system can deliver a firing solution and then execute it. No more peering through the mist from the bridge of a diesel sub as you hunt convoys etc. Also no deck guns/flak.

The development of technologies through WWII was dramatic. ASW weapons and tactics improved massively in the Atlantic while subs didn't, resulting in a crushing defeat of the subs. In the Pacific, the development was largely on the part of the subs, which is why they maintained/improved their advantages and won a resounding victory. This progress is one of the real attractions of the era, as your situation changes as your/the enemy's technologies change. Reminds me of the great Red Baron where you sweated when the opposition got a new toy (twin MGs, biplanes, better performing engines/airframes) that put them at an advantage, then made hay when your own tech had leap-frogged theirs. This simply doesn't happen in 'modern' times in that the advantages remain pretty much with the Western Powers throughout.

For these reasons I don't have any real interest in post-WWII subsims. I think many of the people who have played all the SH series would be of a similar mind (that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken).

modern sub sim game would be very dull because since 1945 has a sub actually been used in anger except to shoot cruise missiles against Iraq ?

a sub game that mimicks Hunt for Red October would be boring as a modern sun can stay submerged for months :down:

It'll never happen, but it would be kind of cool to see the earliest prototypes for nuclear subs in a game like SH3/SH4. I'm talking like Nautilus, or the Soviet November class.

The only way I can see it being implemented though is if you had a dynamic campaign that could be prolonged through your own actions. For instance, you spend WW2 driving your VII and your XXI to such perfection, that the allies haven't invaded even by 1945. Then, as the war goes on, new technologies become available like some kind of fantastic nuclear sub prototype, as well as other new techs that never saw action in the war.

I realize that sounds kind of lame considering the historical accuracy put forth in all the Ubi titles to date, but that kind of "what-if" gamey-ness is the only way you'll ever see a nuclear sub in Silent Hunter IMO.

...barring any kind of fantastic mod, that is. :lol:

The Silent Hunter series is about World War II subs. Better to give it a new name and attach a "From the makers of the Silent Hunter™ series"-sticker to the game packaging if they are to make it non-World War II.

I wouldn't be too opposed to a Cold War sim, but I'd much, much rather have a World War I or II submarine simulator again.

I'm really sick of those "fire and forget" stereotypes. I could say that you just point and click in WWII sims, especially with those damn magnetic torpedoes.

SH5 will require you to have the space for them to build a life-size submarine, which will be crewed entirely by robots (who can speak in german or english, whichever you like), and which will simulate all stations accurately. It will move on gimbals and shake, giving you the experience of really diving and really being attacked. If you die, explosives placed at strategic places throughout the sub will explode, providing an accurate simulation of death and preventing constant whining about a pathetic "death screen."

:o


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

For thoese who want to dead is dead, this will be the sim for you! If this is the case, the market for SHVI is going to be seriously depleated by the time the game is relased!

I have to agree with Nightmare and Steeltrap. Nuclear submarines are just boring to simulate because the whole submarine tactics are sterile and indirect. I´ve "played" "Fast Attack", 688i and the latest version which they sell as a full-prize game although it´s nothing more than a modded version using the same old graphics. If people like gazing at waterfall displays, let them play 688I Hunter-Killer. No need to have waterfall-displays using 3.0 shaders and dual core CPUs. If you ask me, SH5 should be about the Atlantic theatre again. Reasons? - the Atlantic offers the widest range of variety, technological development and historical scenerios - the Atlantic U.Boat war was the toughest, most challenging and most excessive submarine war ever - it was also the most famous (and infamous) one - SH3 may be considered the best WW2 subsim ever - but why? Is it because it is so great or is it because there aren´t any alternatives??? Consider the work all those modders have put into it so far and you´ll agree that much could have done better. Cheers, AS

But i think, a more important decision drive to Atlantic,
SH4..........>65TH of Pearl harbour
SH5..........> German nazi fashon always on stage

SHV, a WWI sub sim, or a WWII IJN sub sim.

I like modern submarine simulations.

Anyway, as I said in a much, much earlier thread, I think that SHV should be a test ordnance retrieval trawler simulation, SHVI should feature the Turtle, and SHXXVII should be set in the future world of 3054. I look forward to zipping about the ocean at a depth of 7000 feet doing mach 3.

Once again, let's get SHIV first.

Indeed you could. A few points:

1. I prefaced my comments with the rider that they were "The big problems with 'modern' subsims for me". I ended my comments with "(that's just my opinion - I might be totally mistaken)".

2. I'd find it interesting to hear how you would say a WWII sim using totally manual fore control is as much a 'point and click' as a modern one. Note I've said "I'd find it interesting" and mean exactly that - while it's not apparent to me that this is the case, perhaps you could give some reasons and comparisons to show why you believe that to be so.

3. Not sure how a magnetic torp makes WWII sim comparable with modern ones. After all, you can't wire guide a WWII torp, nor do they have programmable active search functions. Again, perhaps I have missed some significant aspects of the modern sim.

4. Modern subs don't need to surface, unless we're talking modern diesel-electric. In either case, they have powerful active and passive systems for locating and firing upon targets. The periscope is comparitively redundant.

5. I'm always happy to hear differing views. Unfortunately you've not shared yours, and I for one would like to hear more.

6. This is NOT a flame or criticism. I hope you won't see it as such. I am simply asking to hear about those aspects of a modern sim that make it as potentially interesting in its challenges as a WWII one.

Cheers

Hi Steeltrap

Even though I'm not JordanC, I'd like to point out some aspects of modern sub sims that you might have missed. Just like you, I'm just telling my opinion and this is in no way meant to be flame or anything like that.

The biggest misconception that you (and some other people as well) seem to have is, that modern subs are just fire-and-forget platforms. While it is true that they have powerful sensors that can detect targets from miles away and while it is true that modern torpedoes have active searching system, the firing solution is still made by the player.
The ocean is vast and targets are usually small, often other submarines. Most torpedoes in Dangerous Waters (the only modern sub sim that I have played) have range of about 10 nautical miles. The target might be much further away. Then again, he can be much closer too and your torpedo may overshoot. You could of course set the torpedo to search for the target at once, but then your torpedo will zig-zag, therefore slowing down a bit and giving your opponent more time to evade. Or even better, it could lock on a civilian oil tanker and blow it up instead of the intended target. Usually there is much more traffic in the mission than just player's sub and his target.
Things get bit easier when hunting surface targets (a carrier, for example), because they make more noise. The downside is, that they are usually heavily protected. Therefore your could launch a torpedo, but if you don't know exactly where the carrier is, your torpedo can once again lock on a wrong target. Usually you don't get a second chance either: when you launch a torpedo, everyone with a half brain can see the bearing where it's coming from. You don't usually get many new friends that way, but lots of attention is assured.

I think the "fire-and-forget" stereotype is born when people try to put a modern submarine to do WWII submarine's job. If you have active searching torpedoes and anti ship missiles, of course slaughtering merchants is easier than with steam powered torpedoes of early Silent Hunter 3. But in SH3 you still have to avoid sinking neutral merchants in the convoy. The same is true with modern subs. You can't just fire and forget.
Also, in the modern sub, launching torpedoes is more of a precision work. Imagine that you find a convoy totally consisting of enemy ships. In Silent Hunter you would freely choose and try to sink the biggest targets, in Dangerous waters your mission might be to sink that simple coastal merchant in the middle of the convoy without harming any others.
I'm not trying to oversimplify WWII sims by any means. I'm just trying to point out, that you can't just shoot blindly neither in Silent Hunter nor in Dangerous Waters.

Sometimes I have difficulties understanding the comparison of modern and WWII era sims (not pointing anyone with fingers here, just a general statement.)
I play both, I enjoy both and in both I find different challenges. In Silent Hunter there is a thrill of hunting: from a weak sound contact to finally seeing your unaware target trough the periscope, plotting his course and speed, intercepting and finally sinking him.
In Dangerous Waters it's the thrill of hide-and-seek game. My towed array picks up a faint contact that I can't identify. Could it be the sub I've been looking for, or is it yet another fishing boat? If it is a sub, has he heard me yet, or can I go closer? How much information I need to make a good firing solution? How long can I plot it without fear that he is currently trying to do the same?
Or, in a different scenario, I pick up sound contact of enemy task force loud and clear. Which of those contacts if the ship I'm supposed to sink? What kind of escorts do they have? Are they close enough for me to launch a salvo? What about their aircover or possible submarine escorts?

Finally I'd suggest that you would try Dangerous Waters out, if you you haven't already and get a chance to do so. The full version gives much wider picture of the sim, though the demo is also pretty good if I remember correctly. There should also be a multiplayer demo, so if you'd like to try it out, I'd be happy to sink some tonnage with you and so would surely be many people over at Subsim's Dangerous Waters forum. I also hope that, if they ever read this thread, they will give a bit better explanation instead of this poorly written rambling of mine.

Just my humble opinions.