Not a problem... I'll remove the torp V3 when RFB 2 comes out. :up:

Adding to Luke's statement, you can even sink a 12,000 ton tanker with only 2 torpedoes provided you aim them correctly, and wait long enough for the 2nd shot.

A small contradiction that i have to post after having stuffed 8 torpedoes into Nagara Maru without seeing it sinking - it just lies still realy low in the water.

Not saying that RFB is a bad mod - those that know me know i feel the contrary. But i think that sinking THIS ship is a little out of whack with reality.

This is the story of USS Whale's sinking of Nagara Maru's sistership Naruto Maru. Had to use that as Nagara was sunk by aircrafts and not torpedoed. The Naruto Maru was sunk using only two torpedoes contra my usage of 7 vs. the sistership in SH4+RFB+RSRD campaign

"
On 7 August 1943, Whale covered the Tokyo-Truk lane east of the Boning. The following day, Whale's periscope watch sighted a large aircraft ferry and her escort. When everything was set to fire a spread of straight bow shots, the forward gyro regulator failed, and it was necessary to shift to manual operation of the gyro regulator. After one torpedo hit, 7,149-ton Naruto Maru stopped dead in her tracks, listed to starboard and started going down slowly by the stern. Whale fired another torpedo which hit amidships and prodded the ship into sinking faster. The submarine escaped aircraft bombs and set course for the Tokyo-Truk route."

i'll add to this; every once and awhile i have ran into a split medium, that doesn't seem to want to sink. i put three torps, bow, mid, rear, all were mag detect, all blew under the ship, it settled in the water and still took off a 7 knots. after 6 hours of chasing it all over the place, put two more torps and it finally sank. another unarmed frght, put one in bow, one aft, that disabled it. i was out of torps, i circled the damn thing and put 80 4" rounds into the thing, at least half below water line. after 15 game hours, i gave up at left, it never sank. another split medium (i think), another 3 torp spread. start following that one and after one game hour, the breakup song started. that went on for another '8' game hours when it finally sunk. at this point, i tried webster's 1.25 torp and although i agree that it is most likely it is an over kill, it's better than sitting around waiting for something to sink.

until last weekend. i managed to get 3 torps on another split medium before being chased off by escorts. seconds after the 3rd torp hit, i heard breakup song start. i followed the group, that ship settled with bow and stern just sticking out of the water, but it was still doing 7 knots. 15 hours later and 3 torps left, i started another attack run, the breakup song played the entire time. i used one torp and 6 hours later, it still didn't sink. being rather pissed i reload and tried again. i fired all 3 torps, went outside to watch. 2 torps followed each other into the mid section, the other just missed. again, 6 game hours later, still afloat, still 7 knots.
reloaded again and carefully fired 2 spaced torps, but was chased off before firing rear tube. i watched external view and the torps hit just behing the bow and the other just in front of bridge, it finally went down.

on the flip side, i had sunk a light cruiser and heavy cruiser (before x1.25), both with 3 torps, both blew up and sank immediately (was also awarded cmh, which i thought was stupid). then couple weeks ago fired a 6 torp spread at an escort carrier, only 2 hit. about 5 seconds after 2nd impact, there was a huge explosion and it went down immediately. (also, got message 'torp missed,.. torp missed,.. torp impact,.. torp missed', which start another chase story.)

i still prefer rfb over stock, even if i don't argee with sinking model, it is better than the stock arcade model.

all injured ship's run off at ether 7 knots or 6/5 knots if zig-zagging. i have never seen a ship moving at 5 (no z/z) 4,3,2 or 1 knot. I have only had one that the engine got shut down (several that shot off prop), seems damage model ignores drive shafts/rudder cables/boilers. if a drive shaft gets even slightly bent, it could shake the ship apart, at least lowering it's drive speed. if ship sinks to where bridge is just above water, i would expect the boiler to have been put out. trying to push a ship that is getting heaver with water and holes that are adding friction, well seems it would be rather hard. if a ship's construction has been compromised, especially the keel, if one tries to push the ship with the prop, the ship's will collapse.

the silly'st thing a have seen is a ship, bow underwater, doing 7 knots. the prop would had forced it under, that is, with the stern in the air, the prop didn't cavitated so badly, it got any push at all.

even with all my whining, i still say the mods are very neat and appladed the authors (standing ovation), just can't please everyone.
2cents

I don't get it. Even a half decent hit to the engine room always brings ships to a stop for me. You people sure you're using the latest version + patch and didn't screw up the install order or something? It just goes against all my experiences with RFB. :-?

Hi:
I would like to ask what do I need to do in order to restore the color contacts and tails. I like using RFB very much, but the only thing I would like to change is that. Any tips will be welcome.
Thanks in advance for your help :up:
CapZap

Yes - Very sure Arclight.
RFB 1.52 102408
RFB 1.42 patch 18Jan09
RSRDC 1.52 V420
RSRDC V420 patch2

Perhaps its just one or two specific shiptypes that has a problem, Nagara Maru being one of them?

Could it be magnetic triggers perhaps? These things are terribly unreliable; if they detonate too far away from the target, damage is going to be minimal at best. Not sure you use them, but DaveR mentioned using them.

They were ordered disabled in RL; I strongly suggest anyone playing RFB to do the same.

Not used by this seasoned skipper as well :arrgh!:

Just to test it off i tried to roll back on my saves in the campaign and replay the torpedoing. I now have a situation saved where the Nagara Maru has received 3 torpedohits prior to the save. Its dead in the water, but not sitting low yet.

Im 500 yards of its port side with an easy setup.

Repetable times i have tried to put 4 torpedoes into the Maru (the opposite side then the first attack) and neither of the attacks had the Maru sunk after 4 hours. The nearest was the Maru sitting in water to over the decks 5 hours after the last 4 (of a total of 7) torpedoes.

Is it possible to play a campaign with the T class submarine by Keltos ??

arclight: when i first started, i never used mag triggers and at the first part of the campaign, i was running into only smalll and medium freighters.
ALL of the freighters sank with ONE torp (with in 2 to '6' hours as i recall). the normal trend was 'dud','dud' 'boom' (and a -few- misses). So on this medium freighter, i decided to try mag triggering and was pleased and surprised when a 3 torp (well) aimed spread went 'boom' 'boom' 'boom'. so i was really surprized when this thing didn't sink. i took pictures of the damage tiles, all were directly under the ship. one in the rear, i think, should have taken out the drive shaft. one under the funnel, i think, should have taken out the boilers. i also think, that all 3 should have compromised the keel, i.e. that ship should have gone no where but down.

all the other ships i mentioned were with contact triggers. i went on several successfull patrols using mag trigger (with only 2 or 3 premies'). then for historcal sakes, went back to contact.

i mentioned that 2 torps hitting in the same place (and was where a prevous torp had hit), because, if i understand what was said in the rfb manual, once a compartment is flooded/damge, hitting it again would do no more flooding/damge. I was wondering, if this isn't what mav- was seeing. i would think, 3 torps in the same place, would tear the ship in two.

I'll test the Nagara Maru again to check all is right. 3 torpedoes should be all that's required to sink this particular ship.

I believe you when you say you ran into something that just doesn't want to sink. There's after all a fair degree of randomness programmed into the mod; sometimes 1 hit sends the ship skyhigh while at other times it doesn't seem to have much impact at all.

Ehm... well this is what it boils down to really: IMHO the problems being pointed out are either features or no fault of the mod. Let me pick it apart a bit:
I still think mag trigger is the culprit here. Even without it, it's possible for a ship to survive 3 hits. 2 more put it under. I see no problem here.
2 hits and disabled, good. Circled and 40 shells below waterline? First of all, concentrate fire on a compartment untill it shows signs of sinking (10 to 20 shells below waterline), then move to next compartment. Hitting the ship on the other side will only balance it out again. Spreading your fire all over is inefective.
Breakup song doesn't really mean anything. Efforts were made to delay the "ship sunk" message as long as possible. As a result, I think it's possible to hear this song prematurely.
IMHO excellent example of the random factor as programmed by the team. Feature, not problem.
Makes sense, as far as I know none of the warships were altered by the mod.
A ship in distress moves of at full steam, which will likely result in similar speeds for all ships. RFB team took great effort in simulating boiler damage to bring a ship to a halt. You note that this indeed works. Damage model does not ignore drive shaft/rudder cable; these parts are simply not part of the models in-game at all. Not a fault of the mod, but a limitation of the engine/modeling. Perhaps it can be a part of the mod in the future, but it will cost a vast amount of effort, if possible at all.
You talk about friction, but the game engine does not include any modeling of hydrodynamics, nor structural damage. Not a limitation of the mod. Damage over time is another impossibility.
Again, hydrodynamics are not part of the engine.



I hope it gives a bit of insight into why "compromising the keel" or hitting the same spot multiple times to "tear the ship in two" are not valid arguments in this matter.

Sorry if I come across a bit blunt, I'm really tired. :dead:

DaveR - no. I spread out the 4 torpedoes all along the ship - with 4 visible holes in the ship after the impacts. (note that the 3 impact holes from the previous 3 hits prior to the save of the campaign are not visible when the campaign is loaded)

Just some points here:

• Ships will come to a stop once a certain amount of the deck is under water.
• Propeller shaft and rudder damage is indeed a part of the damage model.
• As has been pointed out, the damage model does not cover any warship at this time. We are working on and testing the warships right now (currently all the Japanese DDs have been re-worked for the new damage model). From there we will work up to cruisers, then carriers, then the battleships.