I struggle Ducimus, as I have trouble deciding outright.

The laptops, scare me though, and in his desperation to escape the US wrath, I am afraid he gave nations on :"barely friendly terms" alot of info.

At the same time he confirmed how American Exceptionalism, and how much more noble we are than anyone, is bull-stuff.

A humbling of sorts.

(reason why everyone but us loves it, nothing better than watching Rome fall)

Though they rarely think what will replace it...

Politics is chess, multiple moves ahead must be pondered,

And with our army..

This in the grand scheme is a ripple in the pool.

Personally, I think the reality that has been staring us in the face for quite some time is that we ARE on the decline; socially, economically, and politically. As time goes on, I increasingly find myself believing that if we don't suffer an economic collapse first, our ultimate fate will be the tearing ourselves apart from within due to political strife. Maybe not an all out second civil war as is popular internet conjecture, but not to far from it. Never in my life have i viewed our government as I do today, and I know I'm not the only one.

As to what will replace us as "rome"? China. Hands down, china. We practically gave it to them by virtue of our own greed and ignorance.

I will quote this so people read it again.:up:
Nothing I can add or detract, the nail was just hit on the head.

Heh, you know, I've been mulling over joining the Oath Keepers. Haven't done it yet, and have been trying to find out as much info as I can before doing so. Not sure if it's something I want to involve myself in or not, because I haven't quite figured out yet if it's "on the money", and the right thing to do, or too extreme. For every article I found that says, this is a credible movement, I find another that says their extremists in fantasy land, I also wonder if it's just a dying fad. Of course, what the article say, depends on weither they are biased to the right or left.

And, that's the hard part this day and age, with all that's going on. Trying to get a good pulse of what's what, and what's the right thing to do, all the while trying to filter out the extremist bull. All i know is, our country will come to a crossroads at some point, and I don't intend to be idle when it does.

I just want a complete purge of both houses of congress, and a campaign system that does not rely on private donors.

Too many bankers and energy company "buying" freedom from law or consequences.

Right BP, a foreign company, who holds more sway than American Citizens?

Too big to fail. Big LOL, means gives too much money to attack.

Democracy? My puckered rectum! :D

Oligarchy. much more appropriate.

(Yeah I said it, shove it up your loose violated anuses NSA)

You won't find me disagreeing with you there. The big problem is that we have the best government money can buy. Until we change that, "We the people" is little more then empty words. Going off the deep end of the political pool and into extremeville for a second, I think this is why gun control is such a big deal to people like Bloomberg. It's Kinda like declawing a cat. Once you remove the claws, its an indoor kitty only - no more going outdoors, and utterly dependant upon it's owner because its no longer able to fend for itself.

I hate to Godwin this and forgive me, but in the particular discussion it seems approprate.

The Nazis took away guns, So did Stalin.


Very successful regimes right? Both of them got things right.:rotfl2:

NO, VERY OPRESSIVE!

(all caps intended)

I wouldn't say our government is oppressive... just yet.

But they are well on their way. If we, as a people do not wake up and act in the here and now, before it's too late, our descendents will not be born in the same nation, with the same freedom and liberties that we did. This, we cannot allow.


Unfortunately, there is a counter argument some people have adopted, and also unfortunately for me, it is one my wife shares. It goes like this: "Well, times have changed, it is what it is, and we have to give up a little in order to be safe. I just want to live in peace and not worry about anything". While i can share wholeheartedly for the desire to live in peace and not have to worry about anything, I reject with every fiber in my being the notion of giving up ANY of our civil liberties and freedom in order to do so. As crazy and unlikely as it sounds, If there ever a time came when a properly constituted authority at the city, county or state level, established a regulated militia, I hope she will be able to understand.

http://www.ipb.org/web/index.php?mos...radley+Manning

The International Peace Bureau is delighted to announce that this year’s Sean MacBride Peace Prize is to be awarded to Bradley Manning, the US whistleblower whose case has attracted worldwide attention, for his courageous actions in revealing information about US war crimes. His trial is likely to be concluded in the coming days.


No major free independant western media covers it...


http://www.google.com/search?q=sean+...ch&hl=en&gbv=1

First Amendment under attack.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-912852.html

Meanwhile it became known (repoprted by Cnet) that the FBI has demanded companies to hand over encryption keys that secure https-connections that for example are used for "secure" banking connections and financial transactions. While big companies have the lawyers and financial means to challenge such demands legally (their legality is questioned by many jurists), even some of them like Apple and Yahoo, AOL and Verizon have refused to answer Cnet's questions wether they had been approached and what they did in reply to such requests. Also, such demands could be designed to base on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act FISA, whose validity has just been confirmed by a secret court established to bypass checks and balances and any political monitoring week, and which is capable to be abused for spying anywhere, anytime, on everyone, inside and outside the US, US citizen or not.

My problem with all this is ot the measurement itself. My problem is that the entity using these measures cannot be trusted and is not trustworthy, and that there is no counter-control, and that there is impossible a differentiation to make between counter-terrorism, ordinary crime investigation, civil population control, and economic espionage.

These are frighteningly powerful tools in the hands of totally and hopelessly corrupted, underhanded people who are known for notorious lying, cheating, corruption, and eroding the fundaments of the constitutional and/or moral values they maliciously claim to base upon. Governments, politicians, and the cliques they are embedded in.

One day, there was a scorpion meeting a fox by the river, and the scorpion told the fox: "I cannot swim, would you please carry me over the water?" The fox said: "No, I do not let you crawl on my shoulders and then swim over, you are a scorpion and you will sting me." The scorpion said: "But I cannot swim and would drown if I sting you, so it is in my best interest and I hereby promise you that I will not sting you if you let me climb onto you. Please set me over." The fox, who had a soft heart, thought for a moment, and then said "Okay, climb on my shoulder, and hold tight." And the scorpion climbed on his shoulders and hid deep in the fur, and the fox then went into the river and started to swim to the other side. In the middle of the stream he suddenly felt a terribly pain in his shoulder, and a feeling of cold paralysis started to fill his whole body. Fighting the waves in vain and realising that he would drown, he turned to the scorpion and said: "But you gave your word not to sting me, and now you will die, like I I will! Why have you done that?" And the scorpion said: "Yes, I promised you not to sting you, but why have you believed that - have you forgotten that I am a scorpion? It is in a scorpion's nature to sting, we just cannot do any differently."

First: http://www.smh.com.au/world/moscow-h...723-2qhcx.html

Then:
Someone in Russia appears to be playing silly buggers with Mr. Snwoden: http://www.smh.com.au/world/fugitive...724-2qjuw.html

Or has a deal been cut with the US?

No deal yet I reckon but if the US gives guarantees to look more kindly on Russian requests for extradition from the us then yes, a deal will most probably be brokered.

Sounds like there is some dealing going on based on this report, but as you say no deal as yet:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/edward-s...727-2qr1k.html

Poor guy, getting victimized by that kind of political cynism he wanted to reveal. But what has he expected when ripping masks off faces, and asking the devil for refuge. Any government hates and despises its people, any government only befriends with itself.

Manning being connected to working with Al Quaeda. Assange being taken out of the match by linking him to rape. Snowden falling next. The US government really means business in destroying free press and hiding its dirt under the carpets.
Journalism that finds no more sources trusting in staying protected, is not worth the name, and the whole press thereby turns into government propaganda machinery.

Freedom?

Not needed anymore. Let the state define the truth for you. That's convenient. That's lull. That's easy living.

Anything at all to back this up?

Yes. Argued and posted repeatedly. "Search" is open for everybody.

And I am quite certain you know it. One could not have overlooked it in the forum back then.

Snowden?
I wish him the best, really.

They try to make an example of Manning, so they can use the same for Snowden and all the others from the last decade. There are not only Manning and Snowden, indeed the former heads of the CIA and NSA have already criticized the post-9/11 methods and contributed to the discussion.

The question is whether the military will get through with it, after all what 'leaked out' is all true.


(b.t.w. 'leaked' lol what a definition - a 'whistleblower' is a policeman who whistles because he caught a thief red-handed - which is exactly what happened)

How to get through?

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...oney-nsa-vote/

As stated before, those in control do what they want. The politicians are puppets - bought and controlled - and the voters are made believe to run a democracy.

^ Well, no one has ever learned of history :-?