Except that it is earned. Investing in the stock market involves financial risk. More than one fortune has been wiped out by bad or ill timed investments. It's also the same risk that people are taking when they invest their 401k and pension plan money. Same tax rate too. If Obama wants to raise the tax on the money Mitt and the so called 1% are making he's going to have to raise it on every Americans retirement fund investments as well. That'll go over well.

Lets not forget that the upstart company needs investors. The stock market is the tool used to keep account of what the individual invested. A company is built. Jobs created. Somehow working the stock market is a bad thing now? Lets see, MR company outsources and its a bad thing. If anyone else outsources its called a world economy. Painting a picture that MR is a pioneer in outsourcing is ridiculous. I wonder what it made Jobs look like with Apple's i-whatever manufactured in China? If I'm going to invest my money in The Little Giant Vacuum Company I would expect a return if the company does well. As August said, if you have a 401k you are in the markets. If you don't have a 401k or IRA I recommend you start one. Social Security is not enough to retire on.

Ok then if returns on investment are socially responsible allocations of capital as you say, then why do they need to be incentivized with a lower tax rate? If it's honest work to invest in the stock market and earn a return, why is that work not taxed at the same rate of the income someone earns building bridges or healing children or anything else? Why is capital valued more than labor when both are equally needed for an economy to function? And don't go there with the "job creators" stuff - consumer demand creates jobs, not some guy with money burning a hole in his pocket. No one creates a job that demand doesn't call for.

And while it's true that the average American has a stake in the capital markets, you're thinking too theoretically. Look at it practically: how can you argue that the rules don't disproportionately favor the top 1% or 10% or whoever who actually takes home the vast majority of investment income? Can't find the exact figure, but something like 90% of the investment income in this country goes to the top 10%.

Lower tax incentives to get people to invest and start retirement accounts. Tax deferred. Early withdrawal a higher tax rate. Capital gains from stocks taxed at thle individuals tax rate. Interest on home loans as a write off yearly and incentive to purchase a home. So you believe investing is not honest work. With the dishonest investors then where would companies like GE and Ford be? Who said capital is valued more than labor? Sounds like you did. Why should the bridge builder company be taxed more than the laborer who built the bridge? Because they are the fat cats living off someone's back? Fine, as the laborer, go take the risk and start your own company. When you become successful you make pay more taxes. It's your patriotic duty.

The rules don't favor everyone. Get over it. The responsibilities of the company owner and the worker are not equally shared. The top 10% took the risk. They should not be rewarded? The common worker has the same opportunities to become the top 10%. Take a risk.

Doesn't the fact that they're tax deferred provide the incentive?

Putting words in my mouth. Said no such thing.

The tax code did. Capital gains is taxed at a maximum of 15%. Earned income's top marginal tax rate is 35%. Since one is taxed more and one is taxed less, one is valued more and the other is valued less. I'll let you figure out which one's which.

That's not the question. Don't mischaracterize the argument. The question is why should he be taxed less.

Assuming you meant "anyone", the tax code would suggest otherwise.

Touched a nerve?

To use your example - fat chance trying to use your money to build a bridge if you have no one to pour the concrete. Labor and capital are both needed equally to accomplish anything.

Do they? Do we truly enjoy perfect social mobility?

You bet'cha. It does for me and millions of Americans.

This here would imply you see it as dishonest.

You forgot one thing...everyone has the opportunity to invest and enjoy capital gains at a maximum of 15%. It does not matter if the income earner is at 35%. Want to save on that 35%? Try the tax deferred 401K. Invest in a company, America and your retirement. It is after all, called the land of opportunity.


Sure did because you sit and moan about taxes/rate of taxation. As if somehow you and everyone else can not invest or enjoy tax deferred 401k programs. The stock market is for people like Gordon Gecko only? The opportunity is there for everyone as stated above. The next tax return you receive, invest it. Take the risk. You have to start somewhere.

You are a funny guy. Most companies, if not all, started with the owner pouring his own damn concrete and busting his ass 24/7 to make it work. Many of these guys, even with numerous employees, still get their hands dirty. My boss does. My brother does with his company. My wife's cousin does with his construction company. The list goes on.

Today is my day off. I'm a 1% and a 10%. I work all week, pay my 35%. Defer some of the taxes investing in my 401K. I donated to Subsim so you and I can spare over taxes for the next 365 days. I'm going to enjoy my weekend enjoying something else though.

You edited this in and this is ok:

Who enjoys perfect social mobility? Everything comes with a risk and lost nights sleep. The market crashes, all is gone. Bernie Maddoffs of the world. Who really enjoys a no frills social mobility? Ok, maybe the Hilton chick but even that comes with strings attached.

No, I was simply using your premise that investing is honest work to ask another question. If I found investment to be dishonest, then I would have to find another job.

Does the recent graduate who can't find a job and is buried under student loan debt? Does the day laborer who works three jobs to feed his family? Does the minimum wage worker? Are you telling me they're going to get the same practical benefits that Mitt Romney gets from a low capital gains rate? Again, stop thinking theoretically and idealistically, and start thinking practically - are these people going to have the same ability to invest sizable portions of their income into the stock and bond markets?

Many people work at jobs that don't offer a 401k. So, no, not everyone else can invest into tax deferred 401k programs. Not everyone has the disposable income available to invest in an IRA. Many people live paycheck to paycheck. I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Who gets the most benefit from a low capital gains rate? The guy with $100,000,000 invested in the stock market or the waitress who contributes $10 a payday to her IRA valued at $1000?

You've gone off on a tangent here. Capital requires labor to function, and vice versa.

You're missing the point - if you are poor, you are most likely going to stay poor. If you are rich, you are more likely to stay rich.

Because it'd amount to double taxation on the money. Dividends are paid by corporate profits and those are already taxed before the corporation hands it to the investor.

Funny you should say returns on investments,, and taxes
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/wo...ance.html?_r=0 450 million US tax dollars slated for emergency funding for the government of Egypt,,, why just not make it a half billion,,we are so so sorry that you, let our embassy get attacked,, let us write you a big fat check, now where did that crayon get off to...:har::har::har:So when we get attacked again how much will that cost us.???? Bring our boys home, batten down the hatches,, and fix the leaks...Yes more backroom deals and always on a friday glad someone is watching, the price of freedom is constant vigillance

The recent graduate has 10 years to pay off the student loan. The recent graduate took a risk and obtained the loan. The recent graduate understands what the economy is like. I would assume you believe the recent graduate is somehow the victim how?

I was a minimum wage earner. I worked my way up. Are you one of those that expect $250k as soon as you graduate anything?

I don't think theoretically. I lived it. I did my days of dumping trash, fixing cars, cutting grass, night security jobs, working two jobs to support a family. Where does the theoretically come in??? I purchased my first home. It was a condo. Sold that for a single family home. I have this one sold now as of today and just finished looking at my next home. So yes, a lowly maintenance man at the pool can have social mobility.

And lastly...who said you need a sizable portion to invest. Look at a CD. You do not need a job to offer a 401k program. These you can start yourself. As well as a IRA. Don't need much. Take you tax return and invest it. SAVE some money. Drink the Bud Light like you do instead of the expensive crap you will only pee out anyway. Drive the beater and not the new 2013 Camaro. It's called sacrifice.

You do not need to have the job offer a 401K. You can start your own. Call Great Western Retirement. They can do this for you. Don't peddle the BS that gee, others do not have this opportunity. That's a crock. Disposable income? Give up the beer. Now you have $7.00 disposable for the week. In a month you have $28.00. At the end of the year you have $1456.00. My wife and I gave up smoking. By the end of the year we had saved enough to enjoy a week at Disneyland with our kids. Condo, all the parks, plus Sea World and Universal Studios. We ate out every meal. Did not spare any expense because we sacrificed and gave up a crap habit. If you live paycheck to paycheck change your lifestyle. We did.



Did the guy with $100,000 invest just wake up with that amount to invest? You are smarter than that Mookie. Look at my paragraph above. Give up the beer. Save the money. Invest it. A lot of people do not wake up with thousands to invest. They started simple.


No I have not. Capital requires a guy to start a business. Often that guy is the labor and remains so until he retires. Again, I know more business owners that run their business everyday right next to their employees. I do not know one CEO who drives the company Bentley and does not get dirty.

And that line of thought is what keeps that individual in the lower income bracket.

almost forgot
 

I almost forgot to sign the check to Egypt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca9GuwuOVZc

So the answer to everyone's problems is to give up beer and they'll magically all have tons of money to invest into the markets?

And when the markets turn and they lose their money, what then?

http://www.bankrate.com/cd.aspx

So, earn 1% on 1 year money, and then get a 1099 at the end of the year. Annual inflation rates are currently around 2%. I think your get rich plan may have some holes in it....

If it were as easy as "work hard and give up beer" then more people would be rich. You don't think the millions of people who are working poor thought of that? Or is every one of them just lazy? :roll: If it were as simple as working hard, the Guatemalan guy who mows yards for 14 hours a day, 6 days a week would have as much money as Buffett. It's a simplistic worldview and real life just doesn't operate that way for a lot of people. The working poor are a real problem in America, and I'm sorry if that conflicts with the vision of America you've been sold, but it's a fact of life.

"Think happy thoughts" is the strategy Peter Pan used to fly. It doesn't really work well when you're working 2 jobs just to keep pace with your bills, you have no transportation, time or money to go to school, you can't move because of the costs involved and you have no credit at all. Pixie dust isn't the answer.

And we're back to the sad fact that low capital gains rates benefit the rich much more than anyone else.

The answer certainly is not waiting on a free Obama phone.

The fact of life is most prefer to wait for the next episode of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. Enjoy.

What, positive thinking does not work? Those bastards peddling their books and going on tour. I think we should just cancel all pep talks. These don't help. Self help programs...screw it. It's all bunk. Let's sit out front, drink beer and wait on Honey Boo Boo. Good luck to you. :up:

Who knows really Saladin actually asked the jews to come back to Jerusalem and many did.It is probably more over land issues than anything else.

Anyway realistically because of people with extreme views on either side it is not a solvable issue.

Yes!

I may trash Israel, but their neighbors do not make it any better.

Salahudin asked the jews to be the gatekeeper for everyone. After all, they were not trying to kill his people like the Christians were at the time.

He wanted a free place, that all could visit. He understood 3 denominations saw it as a holy place, and because of that granted free passage and safety to all, in order to prevent bloodshed over fighting for it. He is truly a hero to me (one of many great men I look up to in history), as he understood how dumb men were when interpreting god. He was tolerant, and respectful of differing beliefs.

Do you know the hoops a modern traveler has to jump through to go there now?

Lakota Sioux Nation has Seceded from the United States
 

the US house has blocked 450 million dollars from going to Egypt on friday afternoon sept 28, some in the white house still can't admitt it was a terrorist attack that killed our ambassador, they are trying to starve our children in the school lunchroom, in which they have federal agents inspecting lunches brought from home. They were parade-ing kids around in a Pennsylvaina school celebrateing communism,.. Egypt might not get those german subs after all,,,, all this brought to you by the people that boooed god,,,, and I thank 6195 veiwers that would have other wise not likely known that,, progressive liberalism is a mental dissorder. what a freaking weekend this turned out to be and thank you for stopping by. Good night Detroit we love ya.
this has to some it up what's wrong with the progressives http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj...eature=related I have to admit that number of veiws could be smaller I didn't know I merged.

the liberals are dancing in the street over fudged unemployment numbers yes Obamas poor performance in the debates boosted the numbers,, well 46.7 million people are still on foodstamps lying is a mental dissorder..

So.

I stayed the hell out of these threads, usually.

But then I noticed it had merged. I thought about it for a while, trying to figure out what sane thread it could have merged with. Then I remembered its a Yubba thread. And then I read yubbas last post.

It's all clear to me now.


And btw Yubba, read the very recent ap article on how those figures are nigh impossible to fudge. Whether they are or not, anybody who claims they are is just having a partisan knee jerk homer reaction.

I hate our two part system.

Maybe we should try Europes multi party systems.


Never mind.

Is Chinese hard to learn?

I have to be honest, this thread was merged with my,,, they booed god thread which had 3000 views and change and the Progressive liberalism mental dissorder thread had about 3000 views , so I wanted to make it perfectly clear,,, that I'm not misleading you,, how many liberals can say that:har::har:. I love fudge don't waste it on numbers..