I think, so far as it's a phonetic transcription so something like this [dobroɛ utro volodja] :O:

- Reworked Morale & Abilities
- AMMO SH5 by Raven2012 & Sober's bad weather deck gun v1 (my edition) but currently I'm working on my revision of gun's specs and specs in my revision will be based on our tests results :up:
- no way, I don't know the experience level of my crew
- two C/38-twin on top of the conning tower and 88mm deck gun
reload time:
C/30 - 5 seconds, C/38 - 10 seconds, 37mm - 1.5 seconds, Vierling - 20 seconds, 88mm gun - 10 seconds
and I have no idea how less reload time with the gunner abilities..

Okay :up:
but are you currently using your revisions in campaign, or what?

I wonder if it is possible at all to know it :hmmm:

Are these the values you are reading from the sim files? I need to know the measured reload times :yep:

In a nutshell, I need to compare your set reload times with your measurement of them in campaign :03:

Not yet.. I want to include my revision in the mod-pack..
Last time I played a month ago..

from the .sim files :oops: :oops:

Okay, I will measured them.. results will be reported in the evening..
:salute:

Okay, in the meanwhie I will measure them at campaign start :salute:

I have made some more testing about the effect of passive abilities on guns' specs, using as reference gun reload times, which can be easily estimated in game, and increasing them a bit in order to minimize measurement errors.

Basically I played with crew veterancy levels (in single mission) and with 'Reduce Guns Reload Time' ability settings (both in single mission and in campaign) and, while keeping gun's specs (in sim files) fixed throughout my tests, I measured with a stopwatch how reload times changed. Here are the results:

In single mission:
apparently, actual reload times don't rely on 'Reduce Guns Reload Time' settings. They are nonetheless linked to their setting in gun's sim file, and to crew's veterancy level set in ME, according to the following fixed ratios:

rt0 = RT * 5.00
rt1 = RT * 2.50
rt2 = RT * 1.67
rt3 = RT * 1.25
rt4 = RT

where rt0 to rt4 are the measured times at different veterancy levels from 'poor' to 'elite', and RT is the standard reload time (sim file setting). During a test with crew competence level set to 2 (competent), enabling battlestations halved the reload times, but during other tests, the battlestations order seemed irrelevant (in both cases Rongel's RM&A was enabled). :hmmm:

in campaign:
after looking at the crew management interface, I have found a scale which apparently displays curret gunner ability levels. This is how it looks like at the beginning of the campaign:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2...rabilities.jpg

so, when a new campaign is started, either crew abilities are set to a median level (among the levels defined in SpecialAbilities.upc) or, most probably, we start from a standard level, and crew abilities can be decreased as well as increased. :yep:

Talking about my tests, I carried out two of them: one with Reworked Morale and Abilities by Rongel enabled, and one without it. This mod got different 'Reduce Guns Reload Time' than stock:

RM&A settings
Stock settings
In both cases I started a new campaign, and in I've obtained the same result:

rt observed = RT * 1.25

This finding is compatible with the assumption that at the beginning of the campaign our crew is assigned standard abilities (thus not affected by SpecialAbilities.upc settings). What I don't get, is this factor +25%. Shoudn't sim's RT setting be applied as it is? Is there any other factor affecting it? :hmmm:

Well.. I've tested and measured..

- Reworked Morale & Abilities
- AMMO SH5 by Raven2012
- C/38-twin and 88mm deck gun
- reload time: C/38 - 10 seconds, 88mm gun - 10 seconds in the .sim files

All gunner's special abilities fully enabled.. reload time should be decreased by 20%.. but..

C/38 - 10 seconds, 88mm gun - 10 seconds in the game :o

PS: now start to test the trav/elev tolerance angles

How are you testing the crew Gap:06:

When out on patrol and you give them promotion point have you checked to see the effect of their stats?

Here is my crewman 16 - as you can see he is not a very good shot and is poor at reloading the gun:D
Perhaps he needs motivating

I don't understand :hmmm:

Too many interactions... I am afraid these settings are too complicated for us to understand them in a reasonable time frame without the help of someone who already messed with them... :-?

Rongel, have you finished sabotaging those torpedoes yet? :D

Hopefully these will be a lot easier to understand :up:

I am a total blind at this matter... what I've done is reported in my previous post. In a nutshell, I measured gun reload times at the beginning of the career, and compared them with the settings stored in gun's sim file.

Unfortunately, I cannot go beyond this point, because I have not old campaign savegames, and currently my gpu is overheating a lot if I play for more than 10 minutes... :nope:

Anyway, what I am trying to do is making sure that sim/zon file settings are not increased or decreased by morale factors beyond reasonable and realistic limits :yep:

It was a damn long evening/night :nope:

1. stock C/30, obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.8, reload time 5, ammo 500, ahead standart, battlestations activated, close range, fire at all targets

test1: trav/elev tolerance 15, wind 0, shots to shoot down 80,73,233

test2: trav/elev tolerance 15, wind 5, shots to shoot down 120,40,160


test3: trav/elev tolerance 11, wind 0, shots to shoot down 185,112,63

test4: trav/elev tolerance 11, wind 5, shots to shoot down 120,120,147


test5: trav/elev tolerance 7, wind 0, shots to shoot down 193,173,192

test6: trav/elev tolerance 7, wind 5, shots to shoot down 215,22,33


test7: trav/elev tolerance 3, wind 0, shots to shoot down 110,213,111

test8: trav/elev tolerance 3, wind 5, shots to shoot down 111,120,66


2. stock C/30, trav/elev tolerance 15, reload time 5, ammo 500, ahead standart, battlestations activated, close range, fire at all targets

test1: obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.70, wind 0, shots to shoot down 230,no hits,no hits

test2: obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.75, wind 0, shots to shoot down 376,215,138

test3: obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.80, wind 0, shots to shoot down 92,67,134

test4: obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.85, wind 0, shots to shoot down 272,146,180

test5: obj_Turret/Elevation/gun_anim/end_index 5.90, wind 0, shots to shoot down no hits,464,no hits

Each test was run three times.. and a thousand tests are not included in this list.. :D


also there are two interesting settings in the .sim: obj_Turret/Elevation/speed and obj_Turret/Traverse/speed.. I'll look at them more closely tomorrow/today..:D :03:

:salute:

:D

Volodya, you are my hero!
just give me the time to put your results in a chart :up:


Those parameters are the speed at wich the gun is aimed, and they also affect gun's stabilization :yep:

Yep, my morale/efficiency mod is based on stock settings, so I haven't explored that much actual effects of the commands. I'm basically hoping that they work, in some cases I have found that entry doesn't make any difference and I have removed it. But I don't wan't to go deeper there now!

The torpedoes have to wait until weekend! But maybe when I get it together, I'll post a test mod. It's a real pain to test random values!

Ok, no problem :up:

Yes it is. :nope:
Take your time on it

I calculated the average numbers of shots, and put them on graph:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2889/graph1j.jpg

from your tests we should deduce that there isn't a linear relationship between set tolerance angles and gun's accuracy neither at 0 m/s wind speed, nor at 5 m/s.

More surprisingly, the accuracy seems sensibly higher at 5 m/s than it is at 0 m/s (which is exactly the opposite of what one would expect) though this difference tends to attenuate at higher tolerance settigs.

What is interesting is that the two graphs seem specular, but this fact could be a mere cohincidence.

Summing up, being standard deviation values deduced from your data very high, we need for much more tests of each type before we can come to a conclusion. Repeating our tests with higher wind speeds (10 or 15 m/s) and tolerance angles (up to 30 deg) might help as well.

I will join you in doing it. Since we are at it, did you use any environmental mod affecting waves heights or sub's pitch and roll during your tests? I want to make sure to test under the same conditions than you :up:

It is unbelievable how much sensitive is gun's accuracy to these parameters: +/- one tenth of second and their effectiveness gets totally compromised :yep:

damn.. I have a bad connection to the net again.. :nope:

unfortunately it's impossible.. at least for the AI-gunners.. the dive trigger turn on and AI-gunner leave his station at these wind speed values..

I'll test it later tonight..

stock SH5 + New UIs + IRAI + Cameras ratio + your single mission #2 + test mod (.sim).. That's all folks © :D

This is also true for conning tower mounted guns? :hmmm:
What is the maximum wind speed at which deck crew won't leave their stations?

Take your time, Volodya ;)

Okay :up:

P.S: perhaphs I have found a way to force any kind of flak gun in single mission:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...d.php?t=180669

This was with SHIII. Let's hope that with SH5 it is the same :)