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-   -   UK Politics Thread (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=220113)

Tribesman 03-12-14 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiced_Rum (Post 2185003)
Have to agree with Jim :agree:, it reads like Mr Milibean scoring an own goal by ignoring the public desire for a chance to vote on their future. If Lord Mandy supports this plan then it must be a bad idea, like giving up much of the UK rebate. Ed must be getting pressure from the banks and big business not to leave the EU or wants a job on the Brussels gravy train in the future. How can he support the Scotch referendum on leaving the UK but not allow the UK to hold one on leaving Europe. Surely if Europe is so good then the voters will choose to stay in by a large majority and there is no risk of leaving, so hold a democratic referendum and then carry on as normal.

Well that difference might be because if Scotland leaves Britain Britain can set the terms.
Whereas if the UK leaves Europe then Europe sets the terms.
The politicians are well aware of this, that is why Cameron keeps pledging to have a vote but not having one, and why even the Kippers leadership admit that their anti Europe stance is just empty rhetoric.

STEED 03-12-14 04:34 PM

People of Europe rise up and bring down that nest of vipers known as the EU. Rise up and break your chains or sit there and get beaten up by the EU.

Spiced_Rum 03-12-14 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2185083)
Well that difference might be because if Scotland leaves Britain Britain can set the terms.
Whereas if the UK leaves Europe then Europe sets the terms.
The politicians are well aware of this, that is why Cameron keeps pledging to have a vote but not having one, and why even the Kippers leadership admit that their anti Europe stance is just empty rhetoric.

Scotland is a country/province with its own laws and parliament, but would need to arrange terms with Great Britain (UK) over use of currency (Sterling) and division of armed forces, power utilities, etc.

But if GB left EU then no real issue, as it has a separate currency, no land borders, and could trade with the US, Commonwealth, or Far East without EU. And if the French get all uppity then just ban the import of cheeses and wine :D, and buy more decent new world wines instead. Instead of paying vast a amount of money to subsidise EU, and then getting some back in a rebate (why not just pay less in the first place) they could spend the money on their own infrastructure. Less EU workers also means better soccer teams, which they really need to improve on.

Jimbuna 03-12-14 05:37 PM

Soccer/Football I can certainly agree on :)

Tribesman 03-12-14 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiced_Rum (Post 2185118)
Scotland is a country/province with its own laws and parliament, but would need to arrange terms with Great Britain (UK) over use of currency (Sterling) and division of armed forces, power utilities, etc.

But if GB left EU then no real issue, as it has a separate currency, no land borders, and could trade with the US, Commonwealth, or Far East without EU. And if the French get all uppity then just ban the import of cheeses and wine :D, and buy more decent new world wines instead. Instead of paying vast a amount of money to subsidise EU, and then getting some back in a rebate (why not just pay less in the first place) they could spend the money on their own infrastructure. Less EU workers also means better soccer teams, which they really need to improve on.

You miss the important stuff.
The most important is how much debt you get saddled with.
Westminster will decide how much of the UKs debt Holyrood has to pick up, Brussels will decide how much of the EUs debt Westminster has to pay.

Glad you mentioned Utilities. Britain sold off most of hers for a pittance as part of an ideologicly driven excersize in asset stripping.
Many of these are now owned by State and Semi-State companies in EU countries.
How much do you think those countries will screw you in those business interests if you don't want to play their game anymore?

Spiced_Rum 03-13-14 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2185190)
You miss the important stuff.
The most important is how much debt you get saddled with.
Westminster will decide how much of the UKs debt Holyrood has to pick up, Brussels will decide how much of the EUs debt Westminster has to pay.

Glad you mentioned Utilities. Britain sold off most of hers for a pittance as part of an ideologicly driven excersize in asset stripping.
Many of these are now owned by State and Semi-State companies in EU countries.
How much do you think those countries will screw you in those business interests if you don't want to play their game anymore?

Good point. Of course the easy option with utilities is just to renationalize them all again. And build some new nuclear power stations so there is less dependency on Russian gas.

TarJak 03-13-14 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiced_Rum (Post 2185262)
Good point. Of course the easy option with utilities is just to renationalize them all again. And build some new nuclear power stations so there is less dependency on Russian gas.

I suggest you stop eating borscht I'd Russian gas is a problem for you.

Tribesman 03-13-14 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiced_Rum (Post 2185262)
Good point. Of course the easy option with utilities is just to renationalize them all again. And build some new nuclear power stations so there is less dependency on Russian gas.

Nationalise them, like Chavez?:03:

How are you going to pay the EU for their assets? After all they bought them so they own them, plus they bought them for knockdown bargain basement price, will they demand real market value if you want it back?
Could be a very expensive business deal if they demand a fair price

As for switching to nuclear to get rid of Russian gas. Your biggest gas imports are from Western Europe not Russia. That's Norway Holland and Belgium. Which sounds kinda EU doesn't it.
As far as Nuclear goes .The French State owned EDF is doing Hinkley isn't it?
The next project in development is by the State owned Rosatom.
So the plan is to switch from a 1-2% reliance in Russian gas from Gazprom and go for a 5% reliance on Russian nuclear from Rosatom.
Plus if Scotland gets its independence it gets the bulk of your gas reserves . What guarantee is there that you can still import your currently domestic gas and they won't pipe it to Europe instead?

Votes for independence and leaving trade blocs are all well and good, but the important question is "Then what?".
The "then what?" should be fully answered and understood before people put their little X on the ballot slip.
Not that that will make any difference. For example I still find people in Ireland complaining about measures they don't like, brought in by EU treaties which they willingly voted in favour of. All the information was available for them before the vote, they simply didn't bother and just voted in ignorance.

BossMark 03-13-14 12:26 PM

Fresh squeeze on NHS pay sparks union strike warning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26556047


One word....................................... Insulting

Jimbuna 03-13-14 01:24 PM

Quote:

Ministers have announced a basic 1% pay rise, but the 600,000 nurses and other staff receiving automatic "progression-in-job" increases, "typically worth over 3%", will not get the 1% as well.
That is the counter argument.

Tribesman 03-13-14 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna (Post 2185470)
That is the counter argument.

The counter argument doesn't work.
A national pay deal is one thing, a contractural pay scale is another thing.
The independent body the government commissioned to deal with this didn't lump the two different things together so why should the government then lump the two different things together
...apart from the fact that they have a policy of trying to wreck the health service by any means possible.

BossMark 03-14-14 11:45 AM

Trusting a bank during an economic crisis is like trusting a fart whilst having diarrhea.

Jimbuna 03-14-14 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman (Post 2185633)
The counter argument doesn't work.
A national pay deal is one thing, a contractural pay scale is another thing.
The independent body the government commissioned to deal with this didn't lump the two different things together so why should the government then lump the two different things together
...apart from the fact that they have a policy of trying to wreck the health service by any means possible.

I do believe you have just answered your own question.

STEED 03-14-14 12:43 PM

Battle lines are drawing now Tories & UKIP Vs Labour & Liberals on the EU.

Latest poll news I was told about another hung parliament with Labour and liberals. Speculate as much as you want the GE is not until next year and a lot can happen in the mean time.

STEED 03-14-14 01:09 PM

I see the Home Office has done a grand job at being a right royal heartless piece of crud.

Quote:

US cancer patient Ralph Marx sent back by Home Office because of his disease



A father from the US has been forced to leave his wife and daughter in the UK, because the Home Office said his cancer treatment bill was too high.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-9187867.html



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