So you're claiming that these aren't your feelings on the subject Skybird?

An interesting demonstration of faulty "thinking".

I claim that the quote is by him and that you try to trigger something here. If you want to quote me, than quote me by my own words, and not by those of somebody else. Cannot be that difficult, I guess.

Ok point taken, but you should understand that I was commenting on the meaning behind the words more than the words themselves and since apparently you do indeed share his beliefs then my observation stands.

The evidence backing up the big bang theory is pretty scant at best (and can be explained in other ways). Most of it seems to be a lot of postulation. There are also huge problems with it and our other theories, like for example how did the galaxies spread out as far as they did in the time frame that the universe was supposed to come into existence.

As for the existing evidence, my suspicion is that they are measuring signals from the birth of galaxies, not the universe. I really do not think that the universe truly exists in our linear perspective of time. I am also not sure that it has a beginning or an end, in time, or space, or anything.

Plus the theory to me logically does not make sense. In the beginning, there was nothing (not even time or space or anything), then there was some universe creating explosion and the universe went expanding out in all directions from one point, the end.

I am also skeptical of the entropy theory as well, though the logic is more sound at least. I suspect though, that the universe has mechanisms to deal with this, and that the formation of galaxies is cyclical.

But this is pure wild theorizing.

Hypothesizing, actually. A theory requires some proof.

Sorry for being pedantic...

That would do it for me. All I ever asked for was a single shred of evidence.

Begs the question though, what would it take a believer to become a sceptic?

I thought that happens all the time judging by the number of disaffected altar boys around here. :)

Seriously though i imagine that most loss of faith is related to despair in some way.

Or a new girlfriend.....

You mean like how certain young men will feign interest in various social causes just to meet chicks? :)

And some will fall and go anywhere she points, but yes. This thread is about creation isn't it. :yeah:

You brought it full circle.

That's cool man! :cool:

:)

I agree with that. I would only add that for those whose minds naturally become developed enough as young adolescents to really question the validity of their belief, the inevitable transition itself is often a cause of great despair, psychological trauma and suicide. The demolishing of identity that occurs as a result of their fractured self definition as a believer leaves some in a practical state of shell shock.

I would have fewer criticisms were the scriptures treated entirely as allegory but by all believers, they are not. I maintain my point about those moral pointers being severely confused. That is all fine, but like I said, no more special treatment - ideas stand (or fall) on the evidence of logical tests and until an idea (including ID, Creationism, Gods or afterlives) has been tested and found true, false or somewhere in between, then it is speculation. If the truth (or falsehood) is assumed before the evidence is provided then that is an assumption, about which there is a vulgar phrase I'm sure people here can remember. I can understand the comfort blanket effect of 'knowing' you'll go to heaven and spend eternity in paradise but to be quite frank, even as I find that a little childlike, honestly I would never seek to remove that comfort from someone who relied upon it, nor anyone else, though I will always hope that they might one day learn that it is a shackle, not a blanket, and to live without it and the weight it adds.

So, Creationism then. Anyone got any supporting evidence yet?

I thought not. :haha:
seriously though if anyone thinks they have any I will consider it.

Cheers for an entertaining discussion folks, goodnight/day.

I don't think the Big Bang theory assumes what came before the Bang. The Bang itself is theorized on the concept that the universe is expanding, and seems to have been doing so for as long as it has existed. If that is true then it likely had to start somewhere. What came before can only be guessed at.

In my case it was seeing more questions and finding less answers.