There is point of agreeing and disagreeing. Then there is a point of a witch hunt. This thread in the last 3 pages has become just that. Please read the post above. Other members are a bit unsettled as to where this is going. Liveshot is just another looking for good constructive conversation not belittlement of others work. The point is, keep it civil and do not make it personal.

Past in this thread it was mentioned that a civil war musket could fire faster then the deck gun, then someone said a musket could fire a round a minute. Then I mentioned about the French old guard, and there 6 rounds a minute. I can demonstrate there technique.

Yeah, but can you do it standing in the bed of a pickup truck driving over speed bumps? (aimed fire)

tater

PS--smoothbore musket fire wasn't usually aimed as far as I know, it was "ready, LEVEL, fire!" Volley fire.

True I did not say I would be hitting anything, however it is capeable of that ROF.

That's the difference between a spec ROF, and AIMED ROF.

I can fire all 10 rounds in my SMLE VERY VERY fast. I leave my right hand on the bolt, and pull the trigger with my middle finger. I can fire as fast as I can work the action (I actually pull the trigger as the bolt closes). All in a kind of sight picture (weapon shouldered). It would certainly keep someone's head down, but it's not remotely "aimed fire" and that's with me trying to aim as much as is possible like that.

A DG would ONLY be using aimed fire unless they were lying to so close that they couldn't miss (didn't happen, I just posted my examination of DG sinkings, there was ONE confirmed DG sinking over 1000 tons. One (assuming I didn't miss any, but there could not have been too many).

So yeah, shoveling in the rounds it could probably have been pretty fast. In actual use... almost certainly below the spec ROF, the question is how much lower.

I tend to think it's not all that much lower than the spec ROF in RL.

For SH4... there's the rub. Gunnery is so poorly modeled it needs to have something done to tame it. In RL, US sub skippers simply did not uyse the deck gun on targets over 1000 tons in any statistically significant way.

They were there, and they know a lot we don't know. They didn't battle surface to attack stuff bigger than coasters. A vanishly small number of ships were attacked with torps AND guns, so they didn't even finish off ships with guns often.

Can you all hear me screaming!!!! about this dam deck gun and its ROF!!!!!!!!!:damn:

Yes true but if that target is 5 feet away, you will hit. Trying to shoot at range, that is different.

Sub guns are ineffective, this is why they did away with them.

The platform is not stable and the crew is vulnerable.

Yeah, I don;t disagree at short range. It just didn't happen with DGs (point blank) is all.

Heck, sub skippers asked for improvements over molatov cocktails since DG attacks on sampans were far less effective than just driving next to it and torching it in many cases.

tater

AVGWachawk, seeing as you failed to include my quote in your extensive list of quotes in support of what you feel defines 'logic' and the issue of Berry and his mode, I hope you don't mind if I refresh your memory. For the record, I am not against Berry and his mod. I take umbrage at some of his replies to those that simply question his rationale on the historical use of the deck gun without becoming abusive. It is of interest to note that after 12 odd pages on this thread, and, I might say, a lot of interesting information, that even Berry is conceding the fact that his next ROF for all guns will be be quicker. So, we ALL learn in the process of this debate without belittling anyones point of view.

I'm impressed, but I still have my same old question: What was the weather? What was the sea state? I won't ask the range, since they say it got as close as 15 feet. From the description given it sounds like the conditions were close to perfect.

My apologies for failing to include yours as a quote. Amongst the miriad of other quotes yours was overlooked. I did not want to overkill my point. I do not require a memory refresher. When I require one I will let you know. What is required is constructive conversation to come to a common goal(apparently having Beery make the ROF a bit faster). Seems this has been obtained. Baiting for arguments/flaming is not constructive. That is point one. Point two, when other members start to pipe up and are getting turned off by the flaming, it is time to step in. This is when ALL are not learning anything but a few quick comebacks.

Personally, I believe the ROF that is stock is as close as it should be. Again, the game is limited to a lot of factors that can not be included.

Steve,

Are you impressed with the info I have provided or that I managed to present it in a non-sarcastic way?;)

In regards to the weather, It does not say.

I just put out info which is specific in pointing out ROF in a combat situation on board a moving submarine.

In offering a conclusion which I did not make before, I would say it shows that if you limit your rate of fire to 25 seconds a round you are never going to get what happened in this real life combat situation.

Well, I hate to stick in my two cents here, as the last time I made a post in the same thread that was going on and on in the SH3 forum my post was promptly removed but while this thread may have been constructive at one point, it's just going in circles around the same basic data and accomplishing very little to nothing.

It certainly has nothing to do with Beery's mod anymore (if it ever did to begin with) and more to do with simply debating about the deckguns rate of fire which, in my opinion, is something of a matter of taste really.

Rename the thread so it's titled appropriately and lock it, or sticky it if you guys insist on continue the debate about rate of fire. Please, let's not have another 50 page rate of fire discussion like the one in the SH3 forum in ages gone by.

As for RFB, either you like it and use it, or you do not. It's that simple. Whatever the case, tweak the deckgun to suit your own personal taste, it isn't hard to do and it's very simple solution to those who are unhappy with the deckguns rate of fire in stock, RFB or any other mod. ;)

:lol: Actually neither; I'm impressed that they actually got that rate of fire. Not surprised, but impressed.

I agree, but the problem is still that not all situations are the same, and on average...

Well, anyway, the real bottom line is that anyone can use the rest of the mod and change the ROF to anything they like. It happened back when RUB was released - there was a mod changing some of the things back but leaving the rest; and finally SH3 Commander made it easy to change it to anything from 0 to 500 seconds. It will happen here, too, and then all this discussion will be a thing of the past.

I will vote with my game
 

And my game will have Real Fleet Boat installed for my next cruise. Thank you Beery for continuing to make Wolves of the Pacific all that it can be and thank you for future improvements as well! We've lost great modders before to the same kind catfighting that spoiled this thread. That's all I have to say. "Debate" amongst yourselves, but consider the cost.
:sunny: