What has happened to the game actually?

There are several good aswell as bad fixes.

Now as we all know what great fixes the 104 brought i'd like to mention the reasons why i and my fleet will not use the current 104 patch:

- countermeasure CHEAT:
you never have a proof of what the host has set them to, could be 0% or 100% he could be lying about it or simply set it for EASY KILLS you never know.

-game balance in multiplayer
now that you made the ADCAP Torpedo ranges down to 19-20 instead of 27+ the seawolf has finally lost it's sense.
Now basically an AKULA is able to stay 15 nmi away, aim at the seawolf fire it's stallion and asw rockettorps and then RUN, now at this hilarious distance the seawolf will never hit the akula unless it's staying at the same place like screaming "KILL ME!".
Most people say "seawolf player, change your tactics!" which is simply wrong.
Test it out yourself as i did you will notice the seawolf did a great downcount in efficiency.


So we got two subs left in multiplayer, that are simply BETTER than others, the KILO and the AKULA, the KILO can't be tracked by the akula but once it launched some torps the akula got it's position ( often ) and fires it's whole loadout on the kilo, while the kilo has a very limited amount of weapons as we know,which is the last little piece of balance left in 104.
And mostly the games will end up with both players dead.
So looks like the smart guys of you will be using KILO or AKULA in mp matches.

It's really taking me down most of the guys in these forums, even the new developers do NOT care about actual multiplayer fairplay.

As i do i will be using 103 continously.

I wouldnt mind not having to change to 16 bit colour depth when I want to run in a window :up:


And maybe prolonging death a little. I've rarely needed to use damage control in a sub. At least give us a chance to try :arrgh!:

Hi DW, are you sure, it worked in 1.03.
I'll do some tests.
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Done, changing course, speed and depth at waypoints works like a charm here.

I definitely agree with you that it's a big problem that the settings aren't visible to the client players. I hope we can get some response from SCS about whether or not this will be addressed. A lack of information is not a "CHEAT," though, it's just a lack of information.

Many of the changes will have an impact on the balance of the game. The maximum range of the ADCAP is still 27nm (actually, 26.4). The change that was made was to make the range of the torpedo variable with respect to the preset speed. The ADCAP, for example, will reach its maximum range of 27nm when set to 45 knots. This change effects ALL torpedoes, not just the ADCAP.

Let's look at the numbers so we can see exactly what has changed. No-escape range for an ADCAP in 1.03 was 9.82nm. [ADCAP runtime=27nm/(55nm/60min)= 29.45 minutes. Akula running distance in 29.45 minutes=(29.45min*35nm/60min)=17.18nm. No Escape range = Maximum Range - Running Distance = 27nm-17.18= 9.82nm.]

No Escape Range for an ADCAP in 1.04 @ 55 knots is 7.74nm. (Parameters: Runtime = 23.24 min; Running Distance = 13.56nm; Maximum Range = 21.3nm) [Note: Best NE-range is at 55kts)

So the difference we're talking about in no escape range going from 1.03 to 1.04 is just 2.08nm. This means that the only time that the Akula gets a benefit from this change is when the Seawolf can get within 9.82mn without being detected, but not within 7.74nm. In most cases, the SW will be able to do neither, in which case the balance is the same as it was in 1.03--it's just that most players didn't realize no-escape range was so short when they played 1.03, but they're figuring it out now that attention has been brought to it.

I still do see this as a problem, of course, but that's what LW/Ami is for. (Akulas have realisticly louder NL's and a less sensitive TA). One thing to keep in mind is that US subs stopped using SUBROCs for a reason...ownship sensors would not be able to detect contacts at long enough range for them to be useful. Russians keep them because unlike the US, they deploy their subs in combination with other forces, while US subs tend to operate alone. Russian SUBROCs were meant for use with targeting data from other platforms. That should tell you something about where the problem in stock DW is...it's definitely not in the new torpedo ranges.

Thank you very much for this post, as i see there are still some in here that actually care about balance.

Well as they now go the same range with 10kts less this is a great disadvantage for the seawolf players, as stallion/ASW have the same abilities still.
Also one big point being is that the seawolf doesn't really fit anymore to the mapsizes of let's say 50 nmi operating zone, i mean akula can shoot almost all along the map then.

It seems like you play with auto tma on, so of course with the new patch the ufo-like effectiviness of the seawolf is reduced.
The fact that the akula can shoot all over the map (is that a realistic match ? ) doesn't mean it will find the enemy.
You know, first of all you have to detect the enemy, and a seawolf in 1.04 is still by large the most silent nuclear sub in the game with the most sensitive sensors and the highest tactical speed.
So I ask you again, who is at a disadvantage here ?
Try playing as the game (oops I meant simulation) was meant to be played that is with everything on manual and see just how difficult it is to sink the seawolf. :roll:

And of trust of course. :)
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It could even be an accident. I'm definitely not in the habit of checking the .ini every time I play. If there was at least an indicator on one of the setup pages that would help enormously. A slider to set them with would be even better.

simply wrong, the seawolf has no better sonar.

also i recently tracked a seawolf 37nmi away from my position in my akula so WHAT?

I still feel people in here going for the akula only and trying to find even any pointless fact to make sense of the seawolf downgrade in 104.
It is simply bs telling the seawolf players to change their tactics also and to me it wasn't hard realizing even before testing it out the seawolf basically worse now than the akula

TB-29 Nrd: -14
Pelamida Nrd: -10
Also relevant is the fact that the SW has a smaller NL than the akula. The two advantages combined form a substantial detection range advantage.

I don't think there's too many akula-biased players around here. I also think you're making this out to be an earth-shattering change, but it isn't. Keep in mind that the turning-and-running evasion tactic worked in 1.03 too, but it worked at 9.82nm instead of 7.74nm. No question that the change helps the Akula, but will it be decisive in all cases? When you consider that the SW has the detection edge, it means he should get to shoot first...so the Akula doesn't know the range he was engaged from. If he wants to shoot back, he'll need to do TMA on the incoming torps first to determine where they came from...and that means he can't exceed 7 knots (10 in LW/Ami). (And in any case, wants he starts to run, he's completely defensive and the SW is in no danger.) No-escape range keeps getting bigger the longer he's doing TMA--and, thanks to the layer, he can't be sure he detected the torps when they were fired anyways. So, there's always uncertainty as to whether the torps were fired from inside no-escape range, or if the Akula's time spent w/o detecting the torps, tracking, and/or counterattacking has increased no-escape range to the point that it's too late to run. If you're not sure about whether or not you can escape the torp, then conventional evasion is safer. And the SW has the edge in that sort of fight because of its higher tactical speed and faster torps. (The main difference is that in 1.04, running is a safer bet than it was in 1.03)

This is where the Goldorak is right... if you use aTMA, then the Akula might have a better shot in this because aTMA might generate a spot-on solution that makes a good SUBROC shot possible. But without aTMA, getting a solution that good is quite a feat of skill, and if the Akula player was able to get it (or, if the SW player let him) then the outcome is well-deserved. LW/Ami also makes a difference here by adding significant missile launch transients, which gives the US sub player time to change course and escape the acquisition range of the SUBROC torpedo before it splashes down, and by removing the super-capable seeker present on the stock SUBROC torpedoes.

The Akula definitely got a boost (as did any other vessel that might be attacked by a torpedo)...but it's not the end of the world. I actually see this leading to more really long games and draws than I do Akula wins, since the change will cause an increase in running at the expense of the familiar evade-and-counterattack defense.

it is indeed the end of fairness for the seawolf.

Also don't underestimate the cut of 1/4 of the torpedo ranges, damn what the hell is the point of reducing torpedo ranges and keeping the aswrockets at a dominant distance?
It makes the seawolf useless aswell as the akula's torpedos.

It was a step towards realism without making simultaneous changes to address the balance shift.

Yeah, well you know we asked for.

I'll stick to my SeaWolf. :up:

For the reason that was given earlier...the Russian's used a tactic of flooding the sea with their submarines, which worked in tantum with each other. The U.S. prefers a go-it-alone approach.

Bottom line is this game is to simulate as much as possible with the utmost realism.

EDIT: Yet, to keep the DoD off their backs for revealing classified information.

I'm tired of seeing people wine about their views on what is suppose to be true and real when most of them haven't "been there, done that" and wouldn't pull that information out of us anyway!