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-   -   Afghanistan deadline (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=248599)

3catcircus 08-15-21 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2762958)
It's interesting to follow our politicians and read what they have to say when it comes to Afghanistan.

One of them blame USA, UK, Denmark a.s.o. for Taliban is winning the civil war and it's USA, UK, Denmark a.s.o. fault Taliban became so strong.

Markus
You can't force a Jeffersonian democracy on a people that don't want it. The US wasted a trillion dollars and thousands of lives to be humiliated in this emergency evacuation. The only difference between this and the fall of Saigon is what kind of helicopters they're using to evacuate...

The generals/admirals, "intelligence" community, and politicians are too blame and they deserve all of that blame.

Jimbuna 08-15-21 07:00 AM
'We await peaceful transfer of power' - Taliban spokesman
Quote:
A Taliban spokesman has told the BBC's Yalda Hakim "there will be no revenge" on the people of Afghanistan.

"We assure the people in Afghanistan, particularly in the city of Kabul, that their properties, their lives are safe - there will be no revenge on anyone," Suhail Shaheen told the BBC.

"We are the servants of the people and of this country."

"Our leadership have instructed our forces to remain at the gate of Kabul - not to enter the city. We are awaiting a peaceful transfer of power."

He also said all Afghans would have participation in the Islamic government - meaning Afghans who are not Taliban would also be included.
What has the conflict cost the US and its allies?
Quote:
As Washington poured in billions of dollars to fight the Taliban insurgency and fund reconstruction after invading in 2001, troop numbers went up.

Other countries were also part of the foreign military presence, but the US had by far the biggest single contingent - and racked up the largest bill.

Between 2010-12, when the US had more than 100,000 soldiers in Afghanistan, the cost of the war had reached almost $100bn a year, going by official figures.

One academic study, which looked at war costs in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, estimated the US had spent around $978bn since the 2001 (this includes money allocated for 2020).

The UK and Germany - which had the largest numbers of troops after the US - spent an estimated $30bn and $19bn respectively.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-58219963

Jimbuna 08-15-21 07:03 AM
Wise words from an American many will say.

Quote:
The lesson is, sadly, clear. If you take America's side against religious fanatics, you are doomed as the next U.S. election probably will see a complete change of "policy" no matter what promises the previous one made and we will just pull out leaving you to face the consequences. Just ask the ARVIN rangers, marines and airborne troops and the mountain tribes in Nam who fought on our side. And you might also ask the Iraqis who saw Obama pull us out and then came ISIS. Or the Kurds who lost many thousands fighting ISIS only to be betrayed by Trump to the Sunni Islamist dictator of Turkey. In Nam the people we ditched fought on for several years---until they were wiped out. In Iraq, Iran stepped in with its Shia militias and we had to return to do battle. The plucky Kurds are still more or less OK---except with less territory under their control. What happens next in Afghanistan remains to be seen. Nice going Trump and Biden.

Kptlt. Neuerburg 08-15-21 08:14 AM
Kabul is rapidly becoming Saigon 2.0.

Skybird 08-15-21 08:27 AM
How the pictures look alike.

https://p6.focus.de/img/fotos/id_151...b4f2fbf6a8da84
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dat...aB4f8ADS0UH//Z


https://img.nzz.ch/C=W900,H506,X0,Y0...1430242622.jpg
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/dat...aB4f8ADS0UH//Z

Skybird 08-15-21 08:55 AM
Ghani has fled from Kabul.


Afghan state army is deserting everywhere, leaving uniforms and weapons behind.

mapuc 08-15-21 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3catcircus (Post 2763016)
You can't force a Jeffersonian democracy on a people that don't want it. The US wasted a trillion dollars and thousands of lives to be humiliated in this emergency evacuation. The only difference between this and the fall of Saigon is what kind of helicopters they're using to evacuate...

The generals/admirals, "intelligence" community, and politicians are too blame and they deserve all of that blame.

Couldn't agree more-they don't want democracy

Secondly Afghanistan will be put on the same list as North Korea
A country you are not interested in having your vacation

Markus

Hawk66 08-15-21 12:37 PM
I guess we should not make the mistake to call this "They do not want democracy". The majority of Afghans had no education, no chance to learn/think/reflect about democracy - most of them are indoctrinated from birth by fanatics or feudal "elders".

It is a complete other story what are the costs, in human lives, money and resources to change this. So it would be better to call this "We are not ready to pay the price to change such a system" - without any intention to judge this concerning morality....

3catcircus 08-15-21 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2763042)
Couldn't agree more-they don't want democracy

Secondly Afghanistan will be put on the same list as North Korea
A country you are not interested in having your vacation

Markus
"At least now, Afghan girls won't catch COVID in school..."
-The Biden CDC, probably.

Jimbuna 08-15-21 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2763036)
Ghani has fled from Kabul.


Afghan state army is deserting everywhere, leaving uniforms and weapons behind.
Afghanistan’s president Ashraf Ghani has reportedly left the country for Tajikistan after Taliban fighters entered Kabul and sought the surrender of the government.

Senior officials confirmed his departure on Sunday as the Taliban made further, swift gains in and around the capital.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/c...-b1902917.html

mapuc 08-15-21 02:38 PM
Less than a month to Sept. 11 and with Taliban back in charge. Only one thing to say about it:
USA and its allied has been humiliated

Markus

Skybird 08-15-21 03:25 PM
I think its just a change of tactics, and I wouldnt want to be in the Talebans place, because they have been left behind to laugh themselves to death about the West.

mapuc 08-15-21 03:46 PM
Yes Taliban got some state of the art weapon and weapon system.
Do they know how to use it ? To use some of these require training and exercise to master. I think most of these weapon system will be left where they stand.

Markus

3catcircus 08-15-21 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapuc (Post 2763088)
Yes Taliban got some state of the art weapon and weapon system.
Do they know how to use it ? To use some of these require training and exercise to master. I think most of these weapon system will be left where they stand.

Markus
Í would not be surprised if they manage to employ them. We tend to forget that as in all totalitarian regimes, those in charge have no problem getting *themselves* educated.

mapuc 08-15-21 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3catcircus (Post 2763089)
Í would not be surprised if they manage to employ them. We tend to forget that as in all totalitarian regimes, those in charge have no problem getting *themselves* educated.
Maybe they will learn how to master some or most of these weapon system, but with every gear it break down. So they have to educate themselves in repairing these system too

Markus


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