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-   -   Tesla: ‘There’s almost no reason to have a gas car’ (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=242026)

Reece 02-16-24 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by em2nought (Post 2902785)

Yeh, that's it!! :smug::cool::D

Skybird 02-16-24 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reece (Post 2902774)
Also it seems that is is uneconomical due mostly for battery costs and disposal. :hmmm:

This. This and always this again.

The whole idea does not compute as well as they try to make it appear.

In past months tere were repeated tests by German reviwers and cra enthiusiasts in our media. There conclusions were on qulity, durablity, range of especially Tesla models were in their mildest form deeply sobering, sometimes simply obliterating. And repairs were extremely costly, while reselling value was exceptionally low (which does not surprise me one bit).

Ecars for short distances inside cities, service cars: maybe, I cannot competently judge that, but have my ebike experience, I could ikmagien ecars in cities work, but not for every private household (too expensive). But as Neal already mentioned: I think for trucking, freight moving, overland travelling, families needing their cars for both in- and outside cities travelling : an idiotic idea. Too expensive. And not ecologically sustainable.

Onkel Neal 02-16-24 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 2902798)
This. This and always this again.

The whole idea does not compute as well as they try to make it appear.

Ecars for short distances inside cities, service cars: maybe, I cannot competently judge that, but have my ebike experience, I could ikmagien ecars in cities work, but not for every private household (too expensive). But as Neal already mentioned: I think for trucking, freight moving, overland travelling, families needing their cars for both in- and outside cities travelling : an idiotic idea. Too expensive. And not ecologically sustainable.

Yes, I think you're right. Plus, it's possible/likely that a new tech, like the solid state batteries Toyota is working on, could render the current EVs obsolete. Imagine spending $60,000 on a 2024 EV and a 2025 model with a radically different power system comes out at the same price point but with double the range and 10 min charging time. Who would want to be stuck with the crappy old version?

Aktungbby 02-16-24 11:31 AM

...what also hasn't really been discussed is the miserable cost of repairs to the Tesla developement one-piece carbody that houses the huge and heavy battery. The repair infrastructure and turnaround time is poor as the current focus is on building new EVs, not fixing old ones. Insurance premiums are accordingly higher. https://electrek.co/2023/09/14/tesla...asting-report/
Quote:

There are a lot of detractors who badmouth the whole casting system as more difficult to repair. If the quarter panel is really damaged, now they replace it. If the car's casting is too damaged, it will be totaled as uneconomically repairable and the body will be stripped of its parts, especially the most expensive part, the battery, and the body will be melted down and recast.

Another issue that the naysayers ignore is that there are so many sheet metal cars that are so severely damaged by rust that they're not road worthy and unrepairable. That's not going to be as big a problem with castings.

mapuc 02-19-24 08:43 AM

Debunking some myth about E-cars

Quote:

Factcheck: 21 misleading myths about electric vehicles
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factchec...tric-vehicles/

Markus

August 02-19-24 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2902811)
Yes, I think you're right. Plus, it's possible/likely that a new tech, like the solid state batteries Toyota is working on, could render the current EVs obsolete. Imagine spending $60,000 on a 2024 EV and a 2025 model with a radically different power system comes out at the same price point but with double the range and 10 min charging time. Who would want to be stuck with the crappy old version?


Reminds me of personal computers. I once spent two grand on a 486 laptop with Windows 3.1 only to see win 95 Pentiums come out a year later.

Jimbuna 02-19-24 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2903160)
Reminds me of personal computers. I once spent two grand on a 486 laptop with Windows 3.1 only to see win 95 Pentiums come out a year later.

I wouldn't be surprised if that also happened to a few more people hereabouts :)

Ostfriese 02-19-24 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2902811)
Yes, I think you're right. Plus, it's possible/likely that a new tech, like the solid state batteries Toyota is working on, could render the current EVs obsolete. Imagine spending $60,000 on a 2024 EV and a 2025 model with a radically different power system comes out at the same price point but with double the range and 10 min charging time. Who would want to be stuck with the crappy old version?


That's extremely unlikely, to say the least.

Skybird 03-07-24 01:26 PM

Has the EU overturned the ban on combustion engines?


https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/...en&_x_tr_hl=de


I predicted that this ban would not hold. It simply is impossible to do, at least within the planned timeframe. And the rest of the world continued to revolve around the sun, even if the EU planned to make the sun revolve around Brussels.

THE_MASK 03-15-24 08:30 PM

Where i live in a major city in Australia the price of standard gas is equivelant to $10.40 a us gallon . Thats why i have an electric fat tyre electric bicycle and an electric scooter for getting around on a daily basis . Will be getting a Tesla for longer trips .

Onkel Neal 03-19-24 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August (Post 2903160)
Reminds me of personal computers. I once spent two grand on a 486 laptop with Windows 3.1 only to see win 95 Pentiums come out a year later.


Yes, that's it, exactly. Except $60 grand is a bit more of a bite. Plus, when things go wrong with an EV, it's serious money to repair--talking Land Rover money $$$

I had a friend who drove a nice gas-powered car, was solid, a few years old but worked fine. He had it overheat, so he stopped and when it cooled down, refilled the radiator and went on. It overheated again, he repeated. And when I say it overheated, I mean, he didn't noticed the temp gauge buried in the red, he noticed the antifreeze smell and the car slowing down.:hmmm:

He took it to a shop, they changed the radiator (why? I don't know, they obviously didn't test it). Did not fix the problem. So, instead of getting a competent shop to find the problem, he kept driving it. Yeah, in a week it seized up. Now he's looking at used cars at the $30,000 range to replace it. It would have been a lot smarter to spend $500 or so to diagnose the issue and fix it.

Now with EVs, when they break down, how many of us can repair the battery system?:o

August 03-19-24 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2906378)
Now with EVs, when they break down, how many of us can repair the battery system?:o


Exactly and even if we could the parts would be a heckuva lot more than 500 bucks.

nikimcbee 03-21-24 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aktungbby (Post 2905987)


Sounds like Wenndy is making news stories on the side?

nikimcbee 03-21-24 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal (Post 2906378)
Yes, that's it, exactly. Except $60 grand is a bit more of a bite. Plus, when things go wrong with an EV, it's serious money to repair--talking Land Rover money $$$

I had a friend who drove a nice gas-powered car, was solid, a few years old but worked fine. He had it overheat, so he stopped and when it cooled down, refilled the radiator and went on. It overheated again, he repeated. And when I say it overheated, I mean, he didn't noticed the temp gauge buried in the red, he noticed the antifreeze smell and the car slowing down.:hmmm:

He took it to a shop, they changed the radiator (why? I don't know, they obviously didn't test it). Did not fix the problem. So, instead of getting a competent shop to find the problem, he kept driving it. Yeah, in a week it seized up. Now he's looking at used cars at the $30,000 range to replace it. It would have been a lot smarter to spend $500 or so to diagnose the issue and fix it.

Now with EVs, when they break down, how many of us can repair the battery system?:o


Does the car software crash, if you don't update to the latest version windows?

Onkel Neal 05-13-24 12:28 PM

https://jalopnik.com/ford-lost-100-0...ear-1851472325

Quote:

It’s tough breaking into the electric vehicle game these days. Startups like Rivian and Lucid have posted massive losses while launching their lineups, General Motors has been slow to ramp up production of EVs and now Ford has shared some truly eye-watering losses from its own electric arm at the start of this year.

The blue oval reportedly lost more than $100,000 for every electric car it delivered in the first quarter of 2024, according to a report from Bloomberg. The sky-high loses forced the American automaker to rethink its EV targets and even cut battery orders for future models. As the site explains:

Ford Motor Co. has begun cutting orders from battery suppliers to stem growing electric-vehicle losses, according to people familiar with the matter, as it throttles back ambitions in a rapidly decelerating market for plug-in models.

The move is part a retrenchment of Ford’s EV strategy, which includes reducing spending by $12 billion on battery-powered models, delaying new EVs, cutting prices, and postponing and shrinking planned battery plants. Ford has forecast EV losses of up to $5.5 billion this year and Chief Executive Officer Jim Farley recently said its EV unit, Model e, “is the main drag on the whole company right now.”

The EV unit’s “drag” on the rest of the company is growing. In the first three months of 2024, Bloomberg reports that losses on every EV sold by Ford doubled to $100,000. In fact, the losses on EV sales are so great at Ford that Bloomberg predicts that over the course of this year they could wipe out all profits made by the Blue division, which is the company’s gas-powered car side.

Losses like this are staggering to see, and just go to show how important it is for EV production costs to start falling, quickly. Thankfully, Ford at least appears to be workin on this, with the company announcing earlier this year that it has an electric model in the pipeline that will be both affordable and profitable. Imagine that!
Affordable and profitable usually share an inverse relationship. If they cannot make a profit from $60,00 e-cars and $80,000 e-trucks, how are they going to wring a profit out of a $28,000 budget e-car?


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