The screenshot shows 15fps. That is quite small value :doh: On the other hand I tune the demos to my hardware, which is not so string, but not so weak either.

I'm interested in your FPS values, everybody. Report here:

http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...ad.php?p=21194

If you REALLY can't/don't want to get registration at CADC, report here, better then nothing.

Yes 15 FPS is low, altho, CSS runs very nicely at 15 FPS, it's not jerky or anything.
Also, I don't have a graphics accelerator, just a very outdated chipset.

Hmm... Come to think of it, I have video recording software. I'll try to make you a video to show everyone what 15 FPS looks like, but it might slow it down too much. I'll go have a look.

Sorry Dr.Sid, it dropped me down to 4 FPS.

Don't worry, I'll found some room for improvement, I think I'll post mini-release today. It lowers amount of data transfered between CPU and GPU a lot, I guess it should help, even for non-GPU hardware.

I released new version which tries to improve performance.

http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...1256#post21256

A few thoughts about ship control...This all concerns ordered changes (autopilot) rather than manual control of the control surfaces:

I think one of the major failings of the SCS line of sims in this area is the lack of a difference between routine manuevering and max performance manuevering. Have you given any thought on whether (or how) to model a difference in the CSS? Just as a few examples...

1. I think someone has said it takes a few minutes to properly trim the sub after it submerges. Suppose you didn't give the crew a few minutes, but immediately ordered the sub deep (say, to avoid a collision, or because you were in a surfaced pig boat and got spotted by an MPA). Maybe you have to deal with some random level of flukey buoyancy until you cease manuevering for a minute or two.

2. It's been mentioned in another thread that cavitation isn't a product of only ship speed vs. depth, but of acceleration as well. So, during routine operations, the crew may nerf their acceleration to keep themselves from cavitating while they are progressing towards the ordered speed. In emergencies, they might accelerate at max performance regardless of whether that could cause cavitation on the way. If cavitation is to be modeled in this way, it would be helpful to have the option to order one or the other mode of operation. (This could simply be a toggle, I think.)

3. The amount of rudder or dive angle used may vary on the circumstances. Sometimes the change may be leisurely, other times it may be done at max performance. It would be useful to have both options. I can think of two ways to implement this: either a toggle between routine/max performance OR have depth/course orders also include a dive angle/rudder angle order (the order the player sends is "right 15 degrees rudder, come to course 090" instead of simply the course order as it is in DW or the CSS at this time). You could even combine both; giving the player the power to define a standard routine and max performance rudder angle/dive angles and a provide a toggle between the modes. A problem with doing it this way is that different rudder angles will be appropriate at different speeds, so one 'standard' may not be the way to go.

A consequence of using max performance could be that maybe the change isn't made as accurately as you hoped; e.g. the depth gets overshot or the pilot levels out a little too soon and has to adjust, as opposed to a routine depth change at the same speed where the pilot levels off right at the ordered depth. (And if the player wants it done perfectly at max performance, then he/she should go to ship control and work the planes manually!)

This 'emergency' option does not sound bad.
I had different idea, somewhat simpler:

- any speed order will try to avoid cavitation, and will report if it is not possible. Except flank speed. Ordering flank will give max acceleration.

- any maneuvers would be done as fast as possible by autopilots. Speed will be the difference. On 5 kts even max rudder elevation will give slow turn, at 30 kts you need to avoid high bank angle so you can't use it anyway. You will simply know that high speeds lead to fast turns.

- depth control would be little smarter then now. At PD or with small depth change ship would be held horizontal, but with large depth change small pitch angle will be allowed (up to let's say 20 degrees).

So normally you would go at 5, 10 kts and you can't make turns too fast anyway. As you order flank, you will cavitate most probably, and as speed builds up (matter of seconds) all control will become more responsive.
You can also get 'low level' in emergencies, as you can order pitch angle, not depth, or order max rudder, not course.

Your 'emergency mode' seems to be more flexible, mine seems to be more simple and 'invisible'. What do bubbleheads think ?

When Bells are ordered, they are answered smartly (read - quickly but with thought) WITH regard to cavitation. If you are at 150 feet and the OOD orders up ahead full, you are going to ramp up the RPM's to answer the bell UNTIL you get the onset of cavitation or you reach the ordered bell. If you start to cavitate, manuvering will inform the OOD of the situation and they get a 'Maintain speed but do not cavitate', OR they will be told to answer the bell. If no answer the default is to NOT CAVITATE.

In emergency situations (aka torp evasion & saftey of ship) you answer the bell WITHOUT regard to cavitaion. You STOMP on the power and ship plant modes to allow the ordered bell. If you get AHEAD FLANK CAVITATE, you spin the throttles and coordinate with the RO to not exceed limits. You don't monitor the cavitation meter, you answer the dang bell NOW!

To be brief, ALL bells are answered WITH regard to cavitation UNLESS ordered otherwise. There are preset procedures that are que you in (Ahead flank Cavitate, Emergency Deep, Emergency surface, Flooding, etc) As a throttleman, if I cavitated like the sim, I would be disqualled before the turn of the watch and lucky if I did not end up in from of the green table.

On rudder and plane angles, check out the page on the USS Albacore and some of the measures they came up with to control excessive depth/angle excursions. Interesting reading there.

On trimming the boat, once you are rigged for dive, you had BETTER have most of your compensation done. Oh, there might be some fine tuning, but it should not be so far out as to create a wild ride.

In such case let's copy the spoken command protocol.
As for speed, let's have key for 'cavitate', which will be used AFTER bell order, or when you receive warning that ordered speed cannot be reached due cavitation.
Example: You order full ahead. After while you get warning 'can't go full ahead due cavitation', you order 'cavitate', or not. Or you can order full ahead and then cavitate, without waiting for the warning.

As for maneuvers, let's have key for 'emergency' which will be used BEFORE depth, angle, course, dive/surface order. You would have to repeat the word 'emergency' (I mean use the key) for all emergency commands.

The engine order telegraph (the gizmo that relays bell orders from Control to Manuvering) has a ringer on it. If they order a bell and push the ringer button 3 times, it means get to that speed NOW without regard to cavitation. In a sim, I would expect once would be sufficient to get the message across.

If you are ordered Ahead Full and can not exceed a standard bell without cavitation, the throttleman can just move the EOT to Ahead Standard, when Control changes theirs to Standard thus acknowledging the speed limit based on enviromental condidtion. If control was to acknowledge Standard and the ring up Ahead Full AGAIN immediately, I would take that to mean do not worry about cavitation and answer the ordered bell. The crew has done ITS job and warned you that you are going to make noise.

For the emergency orders, I would have scripts based on preset orders. Let me give you a little more on the detail side here.

Emergency deep: Ahead full (cavitate), 20 down bubble leveling off at 300 feet.

Flooding: Ahead full (cavitate), 30 up bubble, initiate an EMBT blow

The command crew would do some of these things AUTOMATICALLY based on preset procedures. They are HAMMERED into you till they become second nature. You HEAR a command and you react quickly and properly. If they heard:

"FLOODING FLOODING FLOODING in Engine Room Lower Level, Port side main seawater bay"

they are not going to wait to see if someone is playing a joke. They are going to ACT. ONE person freezing can be the difference between life and death. The throttle man is going to stomp on the power, Immediate DC actions are going to be initated to try and limit the flooding and get the boat to the roof. Only AFTER these immediate actions are done do they start to actually think about what may be going on.

Same thing with Emegency Deep. You come to PD to clear radio traffic and as the scope breaks water you see the spots on a ASW aircraft snap on. The OOD is going to twist the scope ring and announce Emegency Deep. While the crew is doing its job, he is thinking about what may be coming next. He is not going to give helm orders, he is waiting to see what happens once he gets his boat back down into the safety of the depths.

It is things that this that I find seriously lacking in DW. They want to have a tactical sim but want you to do EVERYTHING when you have a crew that is there to support you and keep you from making stupid mistakes. Trust me, a crew WILL say something (even to the CO) if they think he is about to pull a woopsie.

There are yet 2 situation I need to differ. Peaceful and slow turn and torpedo evasion turn. Are there any different orders for these ?

Dr Sid the link to your fascinating mod is dead. Ohh I wanna cry I don't get my hands on your mod LOL. Could you upload it somewhere perhaps subguru site? thanks

Ohh bloody it's not a mod isn't it?
Damn usch a nice model of Akula.........

Edit:

what is this work of yours? A community developed subsim? Is it free?
Is it finished with working sonar and such?
I'm on dial up so I can't afford to view every page on this thread LOL.

Edit2:

Ohh man I surely hope you get this done then I'll bribe somebody to download it for me.

Chill out dude :arrgh!:. It's free, homemade, community based subsim. It's in early stage.
Official discussion is here:
http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

If the links are dead, try it later, it's a free hosting (works right now).

Yey the link works fine just now. Downloading it.

Any chance to import the Akula model to DW(puting on an innocent hopeful looks):D?
Now that is an Akula.

I'm not sure, but you might notice that no playable sub is changed by LWAMI mod even if models are available, so I guess there is a reason.

Hey Dr. Sid congats on your 1000 post!:D

Err I think LWAMI did add a new La-688i class then reverted back to the new 1.04 sonalyst patch updated 688i model.

So I think it's possible.

Your underwater view in my opinion is more beautiful than that in DW:up:.
I'll be watching this sim of yours.