You have to realize this country is full of Joe Six Packs who do not look deeper. We have to look at Obama associates. As the Ayers story unfolds, it is brushed under the carpet. Rev Wright, brushed under the carpet. Come on, 20 years in the church and he was not aware that Rev Wright was like this? Sure. Rezko...I believe there is more to this story. Are you sure this is the America that Michele was ashamed of or was it Rev Wrights 1960 view of white America that was pumped from the pulpit?

Look for some footage of the Democrates outside the Rep National Convention. You will see the other side of America and perhaps that is what Michele Obama is ashamed of. The Democrates are not shinning examples of Democracy either. Each has their nut case.

Look at yourself a few posts back. You said McCain is an old man who should just retire. Obama will not get the nod because he is black. There are other forms of racism other than skin color. Fingering McCain as just an old crow best to fad away is another form of racism. So, what does America really deserve? A person with some very questionable associates or some old coot who fought a war or two, has been in the goverment for 26 years?


I find it amazing that McCain put a proposal out on the table for the housing crisis. Obama has done nothing and it is regretable that Obama has not acknowledged that McCain is attempting to address the problem. Thus far, we have yet another speech from Obama. Speechs to not run the country.

Are you mad? THese stories have gotten a lot of coverage. How exactly have they been brushed under the carpet?

What? Ageism is another form of racism all of a sudden?
You speak as if McCain has never seen a disreputable person.
Liddy.
Parsley.
Hagee.
Keating.


He's put up a plan that is illegal under TARP. WHich he suspended his campaign to work on.
His plan means the Government will buy mortgages at face value. TARP Section 101E says - "take such steps as may be necessary to prevent unjust enrichment of financial institutions participating in a program established under this section....including by preventing the sale of a troubled asset to the Secretary at a higher price than what the seller paid to purchase the asset." Any loan that is not held by the originator, and the vast majority loans are not, would fall under this provision."

And he's been running around taking credit for TARP's taxpayer protection features.
Hah.

I would also mention the since McCain brought up this idea at the debate he has been silent about it.
Ordering a spending freeze with one hand, and on the other advocating that the government buy up every troubled mortage in America.
No wonder he hasn't mentioned it.

Tchocky,

No, not mad. The first time I heard of Ayers was just last week. I'm just one of millions.

Age, yes, people are biased because of McCains age. They have him as dead, cancer riddled or has alzheimers. It is a form of racism just as color, association or lineage has been a form of racism for years.

I never said McCain does not have skeletons. However, we are seeing more skeletons with Obama. His skeletons are more concerning to me than McCains.

The plan under TARP might be illegal but HUD used to do this years ago before it was abolished. I know, HUD purchased my mortgage 10 years ago. I paid the government reduced rates for 6 months. I got my finances in line and then my mortgage was sold to a mortgage company. It works if it is handled in the correct way. That home I made a rental property and purchased another home that I live in now. Subsequently I sold the first house and made a nice profit. So, is McCain really on the wrong track here? Is Obama even on the track or is he having another speech?

Sure, McCain is silent about it. Currently, like Obama, he is running a campaign. Obama has been silent about the housing problem, period.

I first heard about Ayers' connections to Obama (and they really are the most tenuous links) over a year ago, and filed them away as nothing to be concerned about.
I am surprised that an American citizen hasn't heard of this by now. Why do you believe that the Rev Wright story has been "brushed under the carpet"? It was one of the defining moments of Obama's campaign.

You do not understand what the word racism means.

You've mentioned three of Obama's, I've mentioned four of McCains, and that was without pausing to think heavily.

I'm going to repost my question from earlier in the thread.

Still, the question that logically follows from all of this is - has Ayers' thinking seriously affected the political beliefs of Barack Obama? The answer I can see is that if we are talking about the work of the Woods Fund, possibly. Poverty relief forms a plank in Obama's policy statements. If we are talking about the Weathermen, and the actions of the 1970's, then they have not. Obama has specifically rejected this idea, as have people like Michael Kinsley, certainly no friend of Ayers.
Do you believe that through their limited interactions, Ayers has instructed Obama in the methods that he himself has rejected?

He is, if he is proposing a plan that is illegal under the last plan he signed off on, and pats himself on the back for doing so.

:-? Really? Half of the debates have been dominated by the financial crisis, which in turn has been kicked off by the subprime mess.

[quote=Tchocky]You're right Tchocky, it's not racism, it's age discrimination and it's discrimination against people with disabilities which are just as illegal.

• the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA), which protects individuals who are 40 years of age or older;
• Title I and Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), which prohibit employment discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities in the private sector, and in state and local governments;
• Sections 501 and 505 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, which prohibit discrimination against qualified individuals with disabilities who work in the federal government.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

Yar.

A tad wary of discussing McCain's age. The tendency to overreact is quite string whden there's an -ism just waiting to be mentioned.
Ageism is unacceptable. Refusing to recognise that McCain's age is relevant is also unacceptable. Especially for a man who has been through what he has.

Actually the Democrats age bigotry is probably hurting them more than the media will tell you. After all the AARP (American Association of Retired Persons) is one of the largest and most powerful special interest group in the country and they've never taken kindly to such things.

Remember old people vote a lot more regularly than young people...

Final note:

Half of his debate was not providing how he plans on correcting the problem. The conversation we were conducting concerned taking care of the housing crisis which is just one part of the whole crisis. Again, I have not heard anything from Obama other than rhetoric. There is more to the crisis other than the subprime mess. The subprime mess spurned the crisis, surely. Once started, other issues introduced themselves. Really, Tchocky, what has Obama said about the immediate correction of foreclosing homes? I have heard McCains possible plan. Obama? Oh, yes, another speech fear mongering another 4 years of Bush.

Personally Tchocky, I think both candidates will have one crappy time getting this corrected. Neither will come out smelling like roses. Personally, I do not know why any one of them wants the job. In my heart of hears I think Obama is very determined and bright. However, I have to look at experience also. Each has their own reasons for candidate selection.

In all reality gents..............the people and the media will turn on either one that get into the White House. After 4 years, they will be considered no better than Bush. So who cares.

You really think it'll take 4 years?:D

The day after Obama is sworn in on the Koran, ur, Bible, ur, Wall Street Journal, ur....takes the oath of office under the Constitution of the, ur, Article of Confederation, ur, ....says I do in sickness and health....will all the world and media turn like pit bulls on a kitten smuthered in BBQ sause.

It was one of the major news stories of the primary campaign, probably the second most covered after his defeat of Clinton. It got endless airtime nationally. Obama made a major speech about it. That is not being brushed under the carpet.
Yes, because black and white are both races. Discriminating on the basis of race is racism.
Old people are not a separate race.
Listen to August.

Why do you trust so much? Why do you care so little about McCain's past and so much about Obama's?
In your last post you complain about the media, yet here you're saying that if there was anything seriously awry, you'd know about it by now?

Familiarise yourself with the Keating Five.
G Gordon Liddy - Planned to kill journalists, advised listeners to kill ATF agents, Watergate, planned to firebomb the Brookings Institute in DC.
Rod Parsley - Believes America was founded in order to destroy Islam
Birds of a feather. Do you consider Obama's limited interactions with Ayers to be flocking?
I suppose you'll include the Mayor and Governor of Chicago in this as well, considering that they have had much more contact with Ayers than Obama? Are they "birds of a feather" as well?
I didn't even mention Rev Wright in this question.
Maybe Obama has picked up something from a former Marine who was part of Lyndon Johnson's medical team. The same way he could have picked something up from a terrorist now active in Chicago school reform. I'm not defending Wright, I think he's a publicity-mad guy, but you have to realise there are many sides to every person.

Yes or no - Do you believe that through their limited interactions, Ayers has instructed Obama in the methods that he himself has rejected?

Have you sat around and waited for TV to tell you? Because that doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to go out there and actually inform yourself about your own country.
Of course, there are a lot of things going on. but the genesis of most of these problems was the incorrect perception of ever-increasing house prices, the easy credit resulting from this perception, and the corresponding bad loans.
Argued for greater taxpayer protection in the Paulson plan
Will introduce a mortgage tax credit
Will introduce a standardised measure for the cost of loans
New criminal penalties for mortgage fraud in the subprime industry.
This took me about 7 seconds to discover.

Neither man will take office until January - they can do nothing about the immediate correction of foreclosing homes.

Have you ever entertained the thought that the next President could be worse than the current one? ;)

Yes...another major speech about it. Seems to be Obama method of operation. Have a speech and all is peachy. Tchocky, Palin has gotten more of a body cavity search than Obama every has. Rev Wright has been silenced. If everyone is so splendid with it, why is not Wright never heard from again? Why did Obama and Wright leave in different directions? Does Obama still attend this church? Sorry, Tchocky, Obama got a bye on this one. Wright has been silenced and brushed under the carpet. He also retired to his multi-million dollar home.

Again, you see racism as black and white. Maybe you listen to August to much.


Why do I care about McCain past so little? I would say if they had any real damning evidence on McCain, after 26 years, they should have figure it out. We have more stories opening daily on Obama. Most of them a bit more dis-stressing then Keating 5. Gordon Liddy, talk about seriously old news. Again, if there was anything to pin on McCain, it would have been done years ago.

Do I consider Obama flocking with Ayers? Well, gee, they had Obama's Senate kick off in his living room. Gosh, they are not just flocking, they were nesting as well. As far as the Mayor and others in Chicago, yes, flocking. Do you believe corruption is not at this local government level? Get a clue. Why are you so trusting of Obama? You have entered the world of the lemings with accepting everything Obama has done in his past.

Yes or no on influence from Ayers? Yes, of course he was influenced. You do not sit in someones living room and just decide to run for Senate over eating peanuts. You are talking to people who are bolstering you to run and proding you on. What, Ayers was busy making a platter of pigs in a blanket. IT WAS THE KICK OFF PARTY!


Sorry Tchocky, I do not wait for the TV. I read CNN, MSNBC, CNN, Politico and FOX on the internet. So, for someone in the ruins of Europe you have the colossal gall to tell me to read up on my own country? When you become a concerned tax payer here the states, we will continue this conversation. In the meantime, you may continue to worship the chosen one! Enjoy it today because when he gets in the world and media will turn on him. They will turn on McCain. In short, Obama who you seem to so much love will not turn this around.


Your seven seconds of discovery are not new for Obama and not some sort of vision in the night for Obama. These avenues have been discussed before. It is a shame that you seems to think all of the crisis is somehow on Bush's shoulders. Sadly, it started in the Clinton administration.

:o Good point.

Somehow I feel like we are on a rudderless ship on the voyage to nowhere.

I think that McCain here was defended unfairly.

1. He is old. US senators don't seem to have an age limit and serve till death, sex scandal or voluntarily retirment it seems, to put it bluntly. Judging by quality of McCain's arguments, it's obvious he is just getting a bit old to be a president of USA. He's just fine to be a good old uncle, grandpa, run a hardware store even. But Senator or President? I think it's bit too much for him already, and in 4 years it will be way too much. I wouldn't even care THAT much about his age had he picked a decent VP. But he has an idiot with IQ of 83 and SAT score of 850 or whatever it was. That crazy bitch scares the bejezus out of me, i kid you not.

2. McCain has experience? Sure he does. By virtue of his age. but his history is full of black spots. He is not a maverick (although it's nice to see people actually buying into this crap, haha). The guy has been there for so long that he is Washington insider to the dot. Hence, another minus.

3. He is not a hero in general sense of a word. He is a war vet, from Vietnam. Yes, he refused to be released when had the chance. that's commendable. But he also broke down under tortures, signed all confessions, participated in propoganda film, was an erratic pilot (much worse then Bush!) and leaned on his daddy whenever things got tough. I'm sorry, but there are different kind of heroes from Vietnam, even ones who didn't break down, ones who still returned, and ones who are MODEST about it. McCain uses his vietnam experience to the fullest and milking it every second he gets and hides behind it whenever on the spot. In one word, McCain I think is just a coward. The word HERO is overused when applied to McCain. But this is part of general US propoganda, its' same in every country, all soldiers are heroes, etc. But if we are realistic, that's not the case and let's be frank - Vietnam war isn't exactly finest moment in US history, neither like IRAQ. But those guys shouldnt be blamed for it, instead the governemtn should be.

4. Yes, Obama is not great, no politician is squeeky clean. but the way he is now demonized by republicans is sickening.
Anyway, someone needs to take the hit and blame for this collapse of financial markets. And it should be GOP. They can't fix this. May be neither can Obama, but he deserves a chance. McCain doesn't. He had his chances for almost 30 years. No thanks.

Bring up the age argument with Reagan.

Yes, Barney Frank should be patted on the back for his good job with the mortgage banking issue. The GOP should take it all in the shorts. Both are at fault.


I'm not enamored with either of them. Right now I do not think it is the time to "give Obama a chance". This is not little league.

Rod Parsley has a long record of extreme beliefs all of which were out there in the public domain well before either Parsleys destroy Islam comments and McCain saying what a great leader, moral compass, and spiritual guide that Parsley was. I guess that calls into question McCains judgement.

'The United States Has Essentially a One-Party System':

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...583454,00.html

Quite some truths the man is telling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7662820.stm

Now let's see if this gets spun into a large scandal (and I'm sure the Obama camp will latch onto this like pitbulls). Either way, the ship named Palin seems to be starting to sink...