Ok well put simply, Why now? why is the western world & its main stream media suddenly quaking in it boots over the spread of Islam? when 10 years ago - it barley gave a toss!

I really dont see what there is to be so worried about.
Islam may spread, but it can only spread so far - Everyone is different, for every one guy that converts to Islam there are 10,000 or so who reject it.
This is western paranoia over nothing.

Our culture, co-operations and govenments' happens to control the global economy and 90% of worlds weath if not more..
Some jerks fly planes in to some of our buildings, not satisfied by simply punishing those responsible, we go and invade two countries to remove their governments from power. Did we check to see if the Iraqi and Afghan people where cool with it first? No of course not.
Now I'm not going to start criminalising the West, but you tell me who is more effective at enforcing their values (when called upon.)
FFS yes, Islam is here to stay - and so is capitialism, christianity & all the rest.

If islam wants to dominate, they are not going to be able to achieve it with Mosques and Hibjabs

And I REALLY want to know, are we really and statisticly being 'slowly pushed back'?
-or is it just media scare mongering which gives us the 'impression' that we are being 'slowly pushed back'? :hmmm:

Im not Anti-west I live and work here for crying out loud.
Im just trying to be objective, is it really not so hard to step into some one elses shoes for a split second is it?

Because people who are truley not racist - dont even feel the need to say it, they dont even think about it :haha:

No seriously, it cracks me up because me and my friends often use the line 'Im not racist but.." in many private jokes. Thats all.

Im not racist but... I sure like to joke about it :D

Well done Skybird , you do the work for me.
I apologise if you didn't realise. But the fact is that nearly every time you write something you contradict your own arguement, just about every time you attempt to justify your own arguement you ridicule your other arguements.
Charlie Chaplin was late with publication and distribution, but it was still as funny as ****
Forget the ska rythym
A message to you skybird
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

I once bought a record by Toots, I did enjoy the ethnic beat
Oh big up to dem immigrant posse....seen:yeah:

Sorry, but I think you misunderstood me (or I misunderstand you, either way). Our government refuses to talk about a war in Afghanistan although there are fights on a regular basis which also include German forces. Still our politicians insist that there is no war. It was a huge step forward that our new Minister of Defence finally spoke of "Kriegsähnliche Zustände" (warlike conditions). That's why I used that term, though I have to admit that I translated "Zustände" wrong calling them situations instead of conditions... To me there is a war going on and our politicians should finally call it what it is. Everything else is just plain unfair to our troops over there.

Yeah in fact it was so crap, we should send them all back to their bleeding country innit :D

:haha:

Yep, that much is true :D

It still doesn't give a toss about it here. That would make them racists you know?;)
Well I'm 28 now and I've never before seen a so heavy presence of Islam in this country. They are everywhere, mosques are being erected like mad here. That together with the "friendly" attitude that a lot of them have towards our society (there is a reason why our constitution protection is observing a lot of "culture clubs" like Mili Görüs) which is backed by high ranking officials in Muslim countries (I want to point at the "lovely" Erdogan speech as an example once more) and by high Ayatollahs who made no secrets of their plans to take over, doesn't really make me like them.
Another point is that Islam de facto supports slavery. Or how would you call what their women are? Stripped of some elemental rights and almost a posession of their husbands. Lovely....not! I can't condone that here. If they think they have to handle it that way where they came from, fine more power to them, but over here we have other rules!

Are you sure? I'm afraid I made a different observation.
Do you have any statistics about that?

Again, I would not be so sure of that. One word: Oil

Where were the loud protests against it in the Islamic world? Where are the protests when another jerk blew himself up? Nothing? Silence? Oh well, I guess silence is then the Muslim's way of showing anger....oh wait their silence was pretty different when this Danish newspaper published this Mohammed caricatures.....:hmm2:

It is not about military strikes. It is about a "Revolution" from within. They don't need military force. I don't think we have much to defend ourselves against this process nor do I see the willingness to protect our values.
If you want to see how values are protected, ask the religion police in Iran.;)

No, but it is just another step.

The reproduction rate of people with Islamic background is much higher than that of native Germans. So it might take long, but in the end they will simply out breed us (is this the right English term?).

Never accused you of being so.:DL
But I'm afraid that my experience in that shoes for that split second is different from yours.

Now I have to ask one question.
Can you name me one Islamic country that is tolerant of others? I mean tolerance of religion. Equal rights of men and women and all the stuff we take for granted here.
To me it seems that Islam is only tolerant when it is a minority. The moment they have power they suppress every other way of living/thinking and that'S what I don't want to happen here.

Don't be cruel , mockery doesn't befit you.

Bloody hell Skybird !!!!!
Pat???He used to be really funny on the circuit before his act went down the pan and he opted for populist conspiracy crap on the web.
The fact that you even link to his rants really speaks volumes for your point of view.

yeah yeah , if you take a creationist approach and assume that rates are constant so they fit your view.
BTW whatever happened to they mennonites with their low german?
did they ever adapt as immigrants and abandon their practices?

I have to say I find it rather sad. Rather then trying to sensibly discuss some real and valid concerns, certain people here pull out the racism and Islamaphobia (which isn't a genuine statement as its not a phobic reaction) cards, and resort to ridicule and insult.

For one thing it isn't racism, at all, period. Muslims come in all shapes, sizes and skin colors. There are white Muslims, black Muslims, yellow Muslims, if there was green there would be green Muslims. You are in fact engaging in a form of racism by trying to label others as being racist. Its a religion, not a race (scientifically race doesn't even exist as the supposed traits are found in multiple 'races' and vary wildly).

Secondly I have the right to criticize any view, be it religious, political, or whatever. This doesn't mean I am afraid of them, or subscribe to various conspiracy theories. I have major issues with groups that subjugate/enslave half their population (the female sex), force severe mutilation (FGM or female genital mutilation) with out choice, kill in the name of family honor, and so on. I also have major issues with groups that try to force their religion down my throat, have little to no tolerance to other beliefs, yet expect me to respect their beliefs.

No Islam is not a unified force, but like Christian groups they will bind together against other groups. Its human nature to bind to that which is like you. I also find it very disturbing, when people come to another country, a country they often escaped oppression from, then try to turn their new country into their old country. Islam is not a special group, they don't deserve special consideration, or their own separate laws. I don't expect them to give up all their beliefs and values, but I do expect them to conform to our way of life, our laws, and our social expectations. I even encourage them to add to our culture. But I will not tolerate them (don't care what group) trying to subvert, and supplant my culture, values, etc with their own.

So yes I get concerned when I see signs of that. Like when I see sudden shifts in population. For example there has been a massive increase in the number of Islamic people I see in the city where I live in the last 5 years, at least a 2000% increase in total (and I am only referring to the obvious (female) cases). I get concerned when I read large percentages of Muslims in living in European counties want to bring sharia law, to that country and turn it Muslim. I get concerned when I see what has been going on in certain countries, that have literally been taken over by Islam, often by force (pay attention to whats going on in certain parts of Africa and south east Asia). I get concerned when these groups start trying to claim special privilege for themselves only.

I also get equally concerned when I see Christian groups trying to do the same thing, or any other group for that matter.

This doesn't mean that Muslims are evil people, or that there is a giant world wide conspiracy. They are just doing like every other human group through out history has tried to do when encountering another culture. They believe their values are best, their beliefs are just and right, their ways are the correct way, and that everyone else is wrong, so they should be made to see the "truth". Islam tries to aggressively convert non-believers as much as Christianity has.

In the end I don't care what you believe, you could believe in a giant pink frog, that rules the universe from the eternal Lilly pad, and what ever else you want. I really could care less. I do care however when you try to pressure and force me or others to believe in it, try to change laws to favor or abide by your beliefs, or use your beliefs as an excuse to violate the rights and freedoms of others. Islam in general is doing that globally, so I have got a problem with it.

@Skybird
Although I agree with most what the guy says I think he would be far more convincing if he were not glowing with hatred throughout the vid.

At least it didn't shift much for the last three generations.

I don't understand that comparison. They were not immigrants but natives to the country (in most cases). Besides from what I know they did not try to force their opinion on others, so what's the point? Did they try to suppress all others? No, not that I'm aware of (to be honest I don't know much about them). Does Islam suppress every other way of thinking? In every country where it is strong enough to do so, isn't it?

@Neo
Maybe the best post here so far.:yeah:

You call it hate. I call it a mixture of highly justified anger, and determination that is unwilling to accept foul compromises on certain vital key issues. Hate is something different.

Yes, a quality post indeed.

No I cannot, but that was not my point.
Yes in once sense it is Tit for tat (as Skybirds Quote suggested). Im just saying that in another, its a sad step backwards for western freedom overall.
If you start capping the freedoms for Muslims to practice there religion, where does it end once you open that can of worms? Will be jews and christians next or what? who knows.
Enforcing such restrictions on a relgious group is a pretty big step for facism and could do all sorts of unimaginable Damage.
Mosques and Hibjabs dont harm anybody.

That said, I do not belive that westen society should OVER accomidate for Islam either, e.g by introducing islamic laws to our own legal system (yes this has been discussed).
Everyone regardless of belief, should live by the same laws in our society, if you are Muslim or whatever and you dont like it or dont what to recognise it, Well too bad... you can always move.
Muslims desserve the same treatment as every body else. No more, no less.


For what its worth....
http://www.crescentlife.com/heal%20t...to_sept_11.htm

Very interesting videos by Pat Condell. Now I'm behind on work after watching a whole bunch of them and reading his website. He certainly has conviction and talent. He may even have a point. :hmmm: