I aim to remain humble. :cool: The real pioneers of RFB are people like Observer, Der Teddy Bär, and Skwas, without whom the mod wouldn't exist in its current form.

Anything yet LukeFF ?

When i have a mission made with ONE of the Nagara Maru's and ONE submarine i can put 6 well placed torpedoes into him and he just dont sink. I then turn the boat and put 4 torpedoes into him again and let 5 hours pass, still not sunk below decks awash and no kill message.

For the record - no duds, prematures, underruns or pistol faults in the 10 impacts - as non of them were set to underrun the target or explode on proximity; all were set to contact only.

Rig for Depth Charge
 

Sorry, sorry, excuse me, sorry... noob question comin' up.

First off - Luvin' RFB1.52 with RSDC so thanks to all for their efforts. Mastered SH3, but then took a looong break from subs and just got into SH4 a cpl O' weeks ago and to boot haven't played the vanilla version.

Started off with RFB 1.52 + RSRD.
I HAVE rtfm on RFB and thanks for puttin' it together. It answered most of my questions except this one and I did search but couldn't find the answer.

Just need a quick clarification on "rig for depth charge".

Ok so I get it's a manual thing (e.g. moving dudes from certain crew slots to others). But I must be dim as I found what's written in the manual a smidge unclear. Or my sub crew is misconfigured.

From the manual:

1)Never station crew on external parts of the ship.
Main Deck Watch
Deck Gun
AA Gun

That's completely clear and unambiguous so no issues there.

2)Never fill the last, empty, crew member slot in the conning tower.

Slightly unclear for me. Is "...the last, empty, crew member slot in the conning tower," the third slot from the left as I assume it to be??

3)"Prior to any attack on the submerged/submerging sub the player must manually Rig Ship For Depth Charge! Rigging the ship for depth charge involves the following player actions:
1. Move the OOD from each Deck Watch section to the empty crew slot in the conning tower. For Example, the 1st watch section OOD should move to the 1st watch section slot in the conning tower."

Ok it's self explanatory I know, but I guess I'm confused because this must mean I'v got my sub conning tower guys misconfugured?

You see, I've always got two guys in each watch of the conning tower. One in the First slot (furthest to the left of the 3 slots) and one in the middle slot. So if I move my OOD's to the first slot I have no where to put my conning tower guys. In addition to that, my OOD's for the watch crew are not trained well for electrical and mechanical as they're watch guys so my conning tower efficiency rating goes way down?

The other steps of moving the remaing watch crew to Hogan's Alley and making sure there's no one in the AA or Deck Gun slots is also completely clear and unambiguous so no issues there either.

If someone could post a pic of their crew sheet while "Rigged for Depth Charge" that'd be nifty.

Do you guys put around while submerged and being DC'd with your watch crew OOD's in the first slot of the conning tower??:o

Not yet. I've been working on other things for the mod at the moment.

What it means is that, prior to a patrol, don't fill up those three empty slots in the conning tower, because they will be needed for the officers from the bridge watch.

From left to right, the slots for each conning tower watch are as follows:

Sonar > Radar/Radioman > Bridge Watch Officer

Also, it is configured so that the third slot in the conning tower has the same leadership bonus as the first slot of the bridge watch (since it is occupied by the Officer of the Deck and thus, the officer in charge of the entire crew at that time). Because of this, this third slot in the conning tower should always be occupied by an officer when the boat is submerged and under threat of a depth charge attack.

Alright, I ran a test. Two well-placed Mark 14s sank a Nagara within 20 minutes for me. :hmmm:

Rig For Depth Charge
 

That response was not only expeditious Luke, it's superfabulastic. It not only clarifies everything, it provided me with info I was not even aware of (i.e. the conning tower slot arrangement). If I missed that in the manual, my apologies.

Thank You

No, you read it right, but the wording of that section needs to be made more clear for the next release.

Ill be damnd - thnx Luke

Apparently something wrong with my install.

i dont have anything that should apply to this ship appart from the patch to RSRDC

MODS\RFB_v1.52_Patch_18Jan09\Data\Sea\NKLCS_Nagara

That changes 4 files of RFB

NKLCS_Nagara.dat
NKLCS_Nagara.sim
NKLCS_Nagara.sns
NKLCS_Nagara.zon

The RFB and RSRDC mods have been installed in this order - please verify this is correct.

RFB v1.52_102408
RFB v1.52_Patch 18Jan09
RSRDC RFBv15_V420
RSRDC_V420_Patch2

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT

ok i might be on to something

Websters Ship Maneuvering Fix is installed after the above mods. And it has a different Nagara Maru .sim file where at least the mass value are very different from the 0,0 in RFB. Ill try to remove this mod and try it out again....

Could be problematic for more then just me i guess..

Two things here:

• RFB 1.52 is now just one file. I'd recommend downloading the new file and replacing the two you have installed now. No patches to the mod are needed at this time.
• Webster's mod absolutely will cause problems with RFB's ship damage modeling. However, we are working on our own maneuvering mod, so if you can wait a while, you'll have your ship maneuvering and acceleration fix. :yep:

Has the AI been tweaked much in this modification?

I'm asking as I'm running into some difficulty attacking an American task force in my Type IX. It's a while since I played SH3 (with GWX) but I don't remember having this much difficulty approaching a convoy. I think I need a little help...

Maybe I'm underestimating the AI sonar operators, but they seem to spot me from far too far out. I'm trying to approach a convoy of battleships, but I can't seem to get into position for a shot before being spotted. The convoy is being led by a destoyer and screened on the flanks a few km out by a couple more, with another (I think) at the back.

I placed myself in the convoy's path then dived to periscope depth when they were about 10km away. I set myself up so that I was 1500m left of the lead destroyer's path, and well out of range of the destroyers screening the convoy. Then, when the lead destroyer was still over 3500m away, it started flashing its lights and the whole convoy began evasive manoeuvres! The lead destroyer (and its friends) headed straight for me - then it was watery death.

My intention was to try and move around their field of detection, but I don't think I know what that is now!

I'm trying to remember the range of the sonars in SH3 GWX; I think it was a 1500m - 2000m crescent around the front and sides of the ship - isn't this still the same? These guys on SH4 with RFB seem to be detecting me from very far out. :(

Can anyone help, or at least just provide me with the rough detection ranges of American destroyers mid to late war?

If you listen to the escorts, a lot of them intermittently switch off their engines to passively listen for subs (they don't have active sonar - the 1500-2000m crescent thing), so if you're going hell for leather under water they're going to hear you. If you keep your scope up for too long in good weather - bingo!

You have to get into firing postion in front, facing directly the convoy (gives less cross-sectional area for active sonar) and sit tight at ~300 ft. As the 1st merchant/escort passes, head up to scope depth (takes ages) and turn 90 degrees to convoy, or keep it straight to fire at a gyro angle=90.

Once you fired your torps back to max depth, and move away from your firing position (tell-tale torp wake), and continue through the back of the convoy @ 1 Knot.
Worked every time for me.
:up:

Mid to Late Allied sonar is nasty. A maximum range of under 2000 yds is very consevative for active sonar systems even at the beginning of the war. It was more like 2500 dependant on weather and operator ability.

The period you're speaking of is worse--in a couple of ways. Max Active range isn't really increased--in fact--later Allied active systems had a shorter range than earlier systems. Type 147 (spring '43) is known to be the deadliest because of it's look down capability and could be used in conjunction with Hedge Hog and Squid. Yet it's range was only about 1100 Yards. Escorts equipped with 147 typically had another system as well (144A for example) which could still reach out to the 2500 yard area. Systems with Q Apparatus actually had less range when using the look-down capability (about half).

Passive systems do get nastier but I actually decreased their range in RFB as I found them to be rediculously nasty and too sensitive. Weather plays a huge role in detection (what was the wind condition?) and crew quality is also extremely important regarding the range of detection. The 3500 meter detection range you mention seems too far even in good weather--unless I'm missing a detail. Scope up for how long? Silent Running? The more details you can give makes it easier to formulate a good response.

I'd like a couple more details as I've been looking for some feed-back on how these systems are working. Bring it on!

:yeah:

*raises hand... I have questions too
 

Heh, one of the only surveys I've ever answered in my life was Neal's from a cpl o' days ago. With the question "Which do you like better" with regard to SH3 or SH4. The ASW of SH3 definitely came to mind. Although the Japanese ASW kinda sucked during the war and in SH3 it was more of a challenge, SH4 presents a whole set of different challenges that I enjoy. (patrol distance and fuel consumption to name one). I of course copped out and answered with the "both" option.;)

I do have a couple questions and I THINK they're RFB related, but I just don't know. I keep blabbin' this preamble below with every post I make:yawn:, ...but the simple fact is I've had SH4 since it came out, but never installed it untill a cpl o weeks ago and immediately bought 1.5 and then proceeded to throw on mods. Bottom line... I've neer played stock SH4.

1)WCA Passive Range?
This is sonar related, but from the Fleet Boat side. When I aquire a contact in SH4 that's strong enough to illuminate the green light, but I can't hear anything on the phones... What's the largest size circle I should be drawing round my boat? 10, 15, 20 miles?

The WCA sonar listed in the boat sensors page says it has a passive range of 8500yds. I've been playin' SH4 w/RFB1.52 long enough now and that value seems ...conservative? In SH3 I knew the ranges of my u-boat's sonar. When I had a contact on the edge of it's range I used the compass to draw a circle round my boat as a rough reminder to me that the contact was within said area.

2)Collision Damage?
As I get comfy with the TDC in SH4 and I enjoy the scenery, I've been playin with the camera on. I'm weak willed so it has prevented me from dying as it's easy to avoid DC's when you can see where they are going. On two occasions I did take damage from a DD, but it was due to being rammed as I was calculating a shot. I thought it very cool, but I was a little disappointed at the amount of damage I took.

EDIT: oops, forgot to add I was at periscope depth when rammed in case it's relevant. Pease don't ask me why my stupid sig is appearing twice in this post, I'm as befuddled as you.:-?

-Periscope shears slightly damaged,
-AA gun slightly damaged,
-Radio antenna very damaged.

Is this too difficult to mod (i.e. is it hard coded)? From what little I've read there where quite a few instances of the Allies ramming U-boats in the Atlantic Campaign and the damage was usually significant to both vessels, but much more so for the U-boat. I'd love to see them (the DDs) take a bit of damage, but I've seem them running into each other by accident and then steaming away quite happily lol. I assumed it was just something you couldn't mod very well due to UBI. Just curious.

Regards,

XonE:32



Current Mods
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...urrentMods.png

That's the correct passive range for WCA. Of course, targets were picked up at longer ranges than that, but on the whole, from reading a variety of sources (Norman Friedman's book, the patrol reports, to name a few), 8500 yards was the median range at which targets were picked up. You need to remember that WCA was designed to pick up supersonic frequencies; these sounds travel a lot less distance than sonic frequencies. More on this here:

Sound in Water

JP sonar, on the other hand, is a sonic listening device.

Lastly, keep in mind the submarine's sound detection model in SH3 and SH4 is very simple and doesn't take into account things like salinity, water temperature, currents, and thermal layers (this last facet, while in the game, affects only the AI's sonar). That's why I've chosen the numbers you see in RFB.

The submarine damage model is working like it should. As of right now, the destroyer (and all warships, for that matter) damage modeling is still undergoing conversion to match the sinking characteristics of the merchant shipping.

So if it's a median range then would a suggested 6 mile circle.... OMG, I'm such a douche.:har:

I'm thinkin'; your answer makes perfect sense and it's backed up, why is it that I seem to be picking up sh!t further away.

My math:
"Ok... so 8500yds times 3 is 25500ft. So 25500 divided by 8500 is 3 miles. 3 miles is a median range ergo draw a 6 mile circle." But I know I'm pickin' stuff up further out than that.

Then I put DOWN the crack pipe...

...and realize I might want to divide 25500 / 5280 in order to get a median range of approx 5 miles and draw a 10 mile circle on my plot map. :doh:

Oh right I forgot the damage model wasn't applied for the warships yet. I remember reading that in the manual now I think. That will be interesting.

I ran into a Task Force out of Camranh the other day and as I was plopping off shots at the 2 Kongos one of the Maya Heavy Cruisers T-boned an Asashio DD at about 16knts. It was hilarious to watch and painful to listen to as the grinding of metal went on and on. The DD finally got pushed out of the way after almost being rolled over and then it (the DD) carried on it's merry way.:o

Thanks Luke, sorry for wastin' your time with my busted brain.

XonE:32

5280 feet = 1 mile:timeout:

To confuse things a bit more..

Which mile are you talking about.. there are 3 types!. :woot:

Hehehe, I know I know don't rub it in lol. I haven't had a brain-fart like that in a while. I don't mind them as they're usually kinda funny... in a sad, humiliating, ego-debilitating kinda way. But when you waste other people's time with em it's more than a little embarrasing.

Not anymore Van, at least according to me. Now there's FOUR! woohoo. Yep, 8500 yards is the new mile everyone. It's called the "xone". :know:

"Contact, closing. Bearing three, seven, zero. Range, two... xones??":-?