Hello wolfast,

Would you be kind enough to email me that stock shell file?
(I already deleted my backups)

I would really, really, really appreciate it.

LOL its already on the list. Check the GW section of Terrapin's site too.

Guys, I have successfully used the Deck Gun in GW to assist in the sinking of damaged ships.

That is the intent... to assist ships in sinking by aiming below the water line and increasing its rate of sink.

This takes work in GW as it did in RL.

Blowing ships up by shelling all their hit-points away is not what we intend to do.

A U-boat simply couldn't carry enough DG ammo to go 'round sinking ships with it arbitrarily.

Fishing boats... okay sure... PT boats sure if you can hit them... armed trawlers and up... very hard to kill in RL with a little pea-shooter like the 88mm naval gun and still hard work for the 105mm naval gun.

Guys I have several years experience in the actual use of artillery weapons... the 105 specifically among them. Now, I did not serve aboard a U-boat, but general principles do apply.

I DO KNOW that an HE (high explosive) round direct hit on a tank can have little effect... now consider the same round against a great big old 2000 ton merchant. You can draw your own conclusions.

You also must know that all my research... and Marhkimov's research indicated that U-Boats did not carry armor piercing (AP)rounds.

Removing the AP rounds from GW player Uboats also had the added advantage of forcing the crew to load the next available round type. (Default starting round used to be an automatically loaded "its already in there" AP round.)

I'll make a mod for returning the DG to stock... but it will not be part of the GW mod itself. I'll have this for you in a few days.

Even if we did re-tune the DG... it would only be by about one point upwards in damage potential per round.

The reload rates are based on many sources and my own recollections of weapons generally the same size.

With Stock SH3 it used to be a question of "how many ships can I sink with the DG?"

In GW it will remain a question of "do I have enough ammo?"

PM/E-MAIL sent

I under stand and (in a wierd way ) like the GW Deck gun. I have real world 25mm Gun action under my belt(Bradley) and I know that even a 88mm HE rounds would do little for LARGE ships.... I feel the GW dg would be better with just alittle more punch on the smaller ships.... I think my old 25mm Bushmaster could kill a fishing boat...lol... (if you like killing such targets.....) Again thank you for ALL work on GW.... It has given new life to SH3

As far as deck gun damage potential, I have no problems but it seems to me that almost every movie I've ever seen where troops are loading artillery shells, have done so faster than the 16 seconds I timed my guys loading a small 'pee-shooter' as you said yourself, type of weapon.

I knew something was fishy with GW's firing rate of the 88mm on the VIIB(of which I'm currently sailing) and this site proves it:

http://www.u47.org/english/u47_boa.asp?part=3

or this site:

http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-deck-gun.shtml



Look at the bottom part where it says that a highly trained crew of three men could fire 15-18 rounds a minute from the gun. I gave one of my officers a gunner certification, had three men manning the position and the bar above the deck gun position was full green...I was pulling off about five round per minute. That's why I'm now using SH3 Commander's default setting of four second loading times.

I'm not sure where you guys did your research but maybe you changed this to make it too hard to sink smaller ships or ships which have already been hit by torpedos and is being too stubborn to sink. There is a difference between making a game realistic and hard.

Although I may be completely wrong so please show me your sources to correct me.

I will address the Deck Gun issue a final time when I return from duty on thursday.

At the risk of turning this even more into a Deck Gun thread, let me say that the current GW situation seems to be a pretty good balance to me. Yes, at 15 seconds reload time (which is what I was using before via SH3 Commander anyway) I only get 3-4 shots off per minute. I know (based on what I've read - i wasn't there :) ) that real U-boat crews would be able to fire more rounds per minute.

However, given the game physics or whatever, and the fact that I never use my gun at more than 7m/s even though the game (as modded) would let me, I hardly ever miss my target (i.e., waterline), whereas I believe that a real U-boat crew would probably miss a lot, maybe 50% or more of the time (maybe more than 50% would hit the ship, but probably not the waterline aiming point). Therefore, my 3-4 good hits per minute seems about right.

Now, since I almost never miss, I'm only burning through ammo at maybe half the rate (or less) than the real crew would be for the same number of good hits. However, that is compensated for by the reduced damage power of the shells, so I still only have enough ammo for maybe 3 or 4 attacks if I'm lucky, not 10 or 12 like the stock game might give me. Again, that seems about right.

On my first GW patrol, I have managed to finish off two small merchants (one coastal and one small freighter), each of which I had hit with one torpedo. One took about 20 hits and sank in about an hour. The second one took maybe 35 hits and sank in a little over two hours. Again, that feels about right to me, and leaves me wondering the whole time whether I'm risking too much hanging around plinking away with my deck gun trying to save torpedoes, and whether I should just go ahead and give 'em a coup de grace with another torp and get out of there before the escorts or airplanes show up.

I'd love to see the following "solution" to the deck gun "problem", if all three factors could be worked out together:
1. Faster reload time
2. More powerful shells
3. Increased chance of missing

In the meantime, however, I think the current GW approach is a pretty decent simulation of what seems to me to be reasonable outcomes.

On the other hand, of course, options/choices are always good, and if making a simple fix to revert to more powerful deck guns lets more people enjoy the rest of the GW experience that might otherwise have shied away from it because of the deck gun issue, then I'm all for it.

On the contrary, I don't think damage should be touched being that it's actually quite accurate, reload times are unrealistic and that accuracy is spot on too. In the stock game, it limited you too 7m/s, but if you did fire at 6m/s you would notice that the boat does rock up and down, if at a complete stop, moving forward seem to help this. In GW, I haven't found what the limit is for the VIIB, of which I'm currently using but I have zeroed in a target with my watch officer's range and landed many good shots, occasionally over-shooting and under-shooting the target based on the rocking of the boat. Land based artillery doesn't have this problem as the emplacements are bolted to the ground, but the 88mm and 105mm suffered from the unstable platform which is the super-light structure of a u-boat, rockn' to the seas' tune. But suffice it to say, the accuracy, and lack thereof, is correctly modelled into the game. I have missed despite being zeroed in due to the boat moving up and down some degrees. Adding 11-12 seconds to the reload time just because, "...well I'm supposed to miss more..." is fixing the wrong issue.

Well, in U-571 they took out a Radio Station on a German Destroyer in one shot, so... :hmm:

:-j

According to my reading of U-Boat books I also agree with other guys proposing a decreased loading time. 5-6 sec would do the job for me. :)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://rapidshare.de/files/16690841/...r_Fix.zip.html

The above link is for the promised armed trawler fix.

Added missing Cfg file for this vessel and correct .zon file

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Much appreciation to Teddy Barr for providing a corrected .zon file

The issue with the deckgun being ineffecient means that you cant finish the Naval akademys artillery exam using GW.
Solution: Disable GW while completing the Naval akademi.

But how do you make holes on waterline steel hull
with only HE ammo?

I thought there's no AP ammo in gw deckgun, yet
Kpt. Lehmann is suggesting that we should aim HE
shots at ship's waterline. It'll be like trying to bust middle
age fortress wall with greek fires. :88)

Am I missing something here?