Maybe we should grab some Syrians and see if we can resettle the American Chernobyl on the Detroit River. Cheap housing and you can keep all the zombies you shoot.

http://www.itsweird.info/wp-content/...ghbhorhood.jpg

well if you were an immigrant and you had a choice between the above in Detriot or allmannytta. You would be heading to Sweden like the rest.

Can't go wrong with the Doctor :up:

This discussion and some minor key research into the topic lead me to a certain book called "flashback". It's troll value cannot be understated.

This thread is misnamed:

By the end of the year over one million - the population of a city like Cologne - will have arrivbed here, per million per year costing the equivaölent of one third of the German defense budget, around 11 billion minimum. Over here, expropriation of halls and houses and state-enforced renting of flats is discussed, the government denies that now since more and more criticism by non-socialists is being met. The federal states and counties are at their very limits or beyond with handling, organising and financing the immense input. Economists say the massive influx - with more millions wanting to come from Eritrea, Ethopia, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all other places where they heard the story about the German sky that rains milk and honey for free - can only be paid for without inmcraisng the state debts if people work longer in their life and pension age gets pushed back by one or two years.

Its not Europe's migration problem, Neal. Its Germany's migration problem in the main. These people come to stay, and they seek not just shelter from war, but also better living conditions, at the same time many of them come from regions where they were socilaised by the highly politicised Arab form of Islam, and from states were they learnt to deeply mistrust corrupted civil order an state authority. Imagine what all that together means for the chances of "integration". Even more when you learn that the salafists, whose numbers have multiplied in past years in germany and who do extremely successful missionising in Germany, already have started to infiltrate refugee groups and camps and recruiting there.

BTW, the Saudi offer to build 200 mosques in germany, is older news over here, one week old or so, and as a matter of fact the original proposal by the Saudis sounded like a demand for being permitted to build them - with a threat of implying that not allowing that would be a crime against humanity. Primitive barbaric cynical bastards they are. You are still threatened with execution if as a traveller you go there with a bible for exclusively private use in your luggage.

Study the Roman empire, and how it was overrun in the 5th century when Germanic vasalls ended their loyalty to Rome and huge numbers of Germanic people moved southward in their escape from poverty and hunger. It finally overburdened the Roman culture and eroded its power of resistence from within. And gone was Rome. The present events compare to that in numerical scale, and meaning.

Germany bit more off than it can chew. Merkel, this FdJ-propaganda bitch that suffocates Germany since over ten years now, all by herself suddenly declared the Dublin rules as being temporarily invalid, (Dublin rules mean asylum seekers must register and file their request for asylum in the EU country where they first set foot onto EU soil). She did not even tell her sister party, the CSU in bavaria, before, which now is very seriously pissed and starts a real big rumble in the kitchen. Merkel kicked open the floodgates needlessly and in violation of valid EU legal standards and treaties, naively assuming she could close them at any time again when she wants that. Well, the internet she still understands to be a miraculous new technology, she said in a interview. She lives on the dark side of the moon.

Much of Orban's criticism - and mockery! - for Germany, is correct, his mockery is well-deserved. The opening of the floodgates is Germany'S fault indeed - and I fear there is no way we can recover from that. We should have followed the Norwegians' example - instead Merkel decided to follow the Swedish exmaple, and that was the worst choice possible, the Swedish attempt to deal with integrating the huge Muslim influx it allowed naively and prematurely, has failed on a spectacular level, giving them more and more hell at home. France, England, Holland, also struggled and failed to deal with this special issue that is unique not for all immoigration to Europe, but precisely with the Muslim immigration into Europe. I can fully understand the scepticism and stubborn resistence of the Easterneuropean nations and people. They have my sympathy on this issue, I think they are fully right. No wonder that Germany's claim to "lead" once again is rejected. They would be stupid if they would follow the German example.

Nobody has any right, there is no human right to move into another, foreign culture where historically grown communities have claimed land and home and exist since long, no right to enforce his way into them and then tell them: "Here I am, now you are obliged to deal with me." Such a right does not exist, it would mean the total denial of any right for private property and own identity. It is as if any stranger rings at your door and demands that from now on you let him live in one room of your flat. The decision to allow that, is yours, and exclusively yours, however - NO MATTER WHAT. The other's life is not your life, he does not own you, you do not owe to him by the mere fact alone that you exist- to think that would mean you think of yourself as somebody else's slave. Nor has the other any claim for the fruits of your labour, your efforts, your history, your decendance, your biography. Such "humk,an rgihts" do not exist. Their claimed content to me is a crime in itself.

Germans currently are drunk of themselves, wallowing in upspiking emotions. Merkel has suffocated us since one decade, her claim for mpower is the only purpose and aim of politcal deciison making, there are no principles beyonds that and all challengers and competitors who could disagree with here, have been eliminated already years ago, all political themes that once were the opposition'S, have been seized by her. There is nothing left beside and behind her, nothing. To now name this political style of pure opportunism and arbitrariness as "Merkelianism", indeed is justified. The result is mental stagnation and paralysis, we are happy to live by the illusion to be endlessly safe and endlessly happy. Of course that is an infantile self-deception. The constant state of emergrency over "We need to save the Euro", "We need to save the EU", "We need to save the Energiewende", "We need to save the climate", "We need to save the refugees", implies a collectivistic imperative that outlaws every opinion that is critically asking questions and does not fully agree that being part of the "we" is good and thus everybody not participating is bad, and that "saving" all that is the holy mission that is not to be put into question even if it is very clear that the task is too big to be shouldwered. This is in principle the essence of fascism. "Saving" has a positive connotation, and thus not wanting to participate in the "saving" turns you into a dubious outlaw and bad guy that gets demonised and chased through the media like a witch in some fanatical village's streets. Denial of reality, ignorration of the limits of what can be shouldered and can be done, are trump, rational thinking and sober assessment with a strong sense of realism is not wanted - to "feel" what must be done is what moves the crowds and masses. Mass hysteria, in other words. Empathy, if being ordered by superior authorities, always has this implication of being a totalitarian, suppressive thing, and it is no real empathy at all, but servile obedience to the state that especially Germans so strongly believe in - the more state, the better, if the German subordinate gets not strictly regulated by state authority at leats once a day, then he feels he lacks something vital, this poor submissive dog. It makes me sick. Two socialist dictatorships in germany within 70 years, two generations - and nothing being learnt, nothing remembered, now embracing the third socialist desaster unfolding, after Hitler-brown and Stalin-red now EU-multi-coloured. Stupid plebs. I dispise it.

This is my translation from the German original, excerpt of a work by one of Germany's past great spirits and poets, Friedrich Schiller, a man inspired by his love for and will to fight for freedom.:

"For the moral beauty of action, freedom of will is an inevitable precondition, but this freedom is easily destroyed in the very moment when virtue should be enforced by laws and penalties. The most noble prerogative of nature is to decide by and for itself and to do what is of goodness for the mere sake of goodness itself. No civil law shall demand and enforce loyalty to your friends, generosity for your enemies, thankfulness for your father and mother, since the ver ymonent such a demand is made, a free moral sentience turns into a construct of fear, into a slavish impulse. "

*****
The simple truth is: the more welcoming you make Europe for refugees, the more will come. The safer you make the journey, the more will come. The more you will to let your morals being turned against you and into a tool to blackmail your obedience to the events, the more will come. The more you delay and waver determined action to enforce a halt, the morer will come.

And if you allow your morals being turned into a tool to blackmail your obedience - what tells that about yourself? Nothing I would ever applaude you for, that much at least is certain.
*****

The longer this all last, the more the word will make the global round, and the more will come. Motivations will change. Were first escape from war and persecution was sought, newly formed and growing demands for higher living standards will replace those motivations. It already is the problem right now. Syrians in Iraq already claim the same motivation to now also move to Germany, like "refugees" from the Balkans - money.

60 million poeple currently are on the move, fleeing war. The German action ahs invited and motivated people in Eritrea, Ethopia, Sudan, Jemen, that until now had no real idea to move to Germany especially, or just to move to Europe at all. Add to those 60 milion war refugees several times as many that want to move to Europe and Germany for seeking just higher living conditions. And then go figure. Before you leave it to parroting ideological claims like "they have the right", and "we have a social(istic) responsibility", think twice. And then think again, and again, until you get it right. Both claims are wrong. For some of the disaster sin the world, we must share respnsibility, and ehre we have to help - locally, obviously, and only if we really can achieve somehting for the better. Ther arab revolution has backfired, so that definitely was a lousy idea. Still the solution cannot be to bring the middle east and its backwardly clture and habits to East Germany, or to culturally enrich the Alpine panorama with the towers of mosques where they belong as much as the dome of cologne belongs to the Nile (as long as the Saudis would not run amok), or to make 5.5 million Fins happy by sending 500 thousand Muslims to them.

The longer Germans deny the truth - the heavier the burden they will feel, the more drastic the consequences for ther Geman civil society and home culture and identity will be. And lets not be mistaken. We talk about millions wanting to come. MILLIONS and millions. Many activists and politicians still have not understood that.

The Middle East as we have known it for the past half of a century, is a thing of a past, it collapses under the mistakes made deacdes ago, and being renewed just years ago. We feel the revenge from the stupidity by which the war in 2003 was brought loose, and was implemented, without the total disempowerment of the Bathist party and the Sunni ethnicity in Iraq (Ifollowing the example of denazification) and their social deprivation of rights by the Shia corrupt regimes following, IS hardly would have been imaginable, and without the European arrogance to destabilise parts fo the Middle East by demanding it to follow Western - and not any less corrupted - government models, their would have been no "Arab Spring" nightmare. Half of the region is a battlefield, what remains in structure is under threat of collapsing, too, Israel is in danger of getting swept away by the self-dynamic of the change, too. And still we have nothing better to do than to criticise the Russians for assisting Assad, obviously Washington still thinks the battle against IS will fight itself. All Wetsern clever thinking about the egiuon, the high-flying plans both from Washington and Europe - they all have failed, and terribly so. Has anyone learnt from that to lower his voice? No. Still the same old paroles, still the same old demands that are so totally disconnected from the realities on the ground.

And while Germany must expect that millions (pluiral) are heading here over the coming years, it is being debated about cosmetic air strikes here and there that mean NOTHING in the big picture, and a big media coverage for conferences about whether or not 80,000 people shall be distributed amongst EU nations. We would be glad in Germany if only it were not more than 80,000.

No historically grown cultural identity can digest such a monumental influx without getting seriously changed and maybe eroded by it. But germans were taught after WWII to never like national pride and feel national identity anymore, never. So maybe this fate of self-denial and self-deconstruction indeed fits them right - as long as nobody looks back beyond 1933, the starting year of Geman history in modern German'S understanding. But when you realise that there were already many centuries of German history before 1933, then you see the losses of the many beautiful and remarkable things that German culture also had to offer, once. And then you can only cry. But that will be dealt with, too. German schools have started in several federal states to skip history lessons from the curriculum. Was man nicht weiß, das macht einen nicht heiß.

Sorry, no, I don't feel multiculturally enriched, not at all. I feel betrayed and robbed. To hell with this modern carricature of a "Germany".

It is ironic that despite earlier disagreements I have the impression that maybe only Rockstar really has an idea of what I am about.

Anyway, one long essay per year must serve enough these days. See you again in 2016.

Until then, this piece, although in German, is a real damn good read:
LINK: State-ordered empathy is BS

Which immigrants were repatriated and which were allowed entry was a political decision. Everyone we came across Haitians, Chinese, Indian, Cuban etc etc claimed they were seeking asylum. However one must meet certain criteria for that to be allowed. Which was what the interogation was for, many questions were asked of them, very very few had the right answers.

However because of the U.S. political climate at the time and Cuba being a communist government. Cuban immigrants no matter where we found them were granted asylum. Until that is when I think it was President Clinton which put a stop to that. That decision only triggered a response of illegal human smuggling. When we found them at sea they were usually repatriated but if they made it feet dry, then welcome to America.

Interesting point Skybird made "many of them come from regions where they were socilaised by the highly politicised Arab form of Islam, and from states were they learnt to deeply mistrust corrupted civil order an state authority."

I saw this myself in the people groups we came across. The Cubans viewed authority with suspicion and distrust and tendened to be secretive, it was really hard to get any information from them. Indians (from India) seemed to just roll with whatever came their way always happy iit seemed. Chinese on the otherhand were one of the most rebellious and defiant lot we ever came across threatening to take over the ship or jump over the side if they didnt get their way.

I feel the pain Skybird. If I was in your shoes I'd be pissed off beyond measure too. Just dont go off half cocked and do something rash.

Alas, poor Skybird! A xenophobe's suffering at the hands of war victims and refugees - truly unimaginable. Let's pray he doesn't go off his racket or we'll all be worse for it.

Is this really where our sympathies ought to be?

A simple question to this picture and them who have added the extra text

Have this woman made any demand to wards her new country

E.g Only halal in school and remove the Christmas festival in the school

If she and other from her original country have made such demands-then she and the others should be kicked out of their new country.


I hear A LOT of this by the news and friends in Denmark and Sweden

Refugees and immigrants making demands

Such as Demanding school remove or forbid pork

Well to be honest-Mostly it is our own people in charge who remove these things.

And it is NOT every Muslim who makes demands a.s.o they become a good citizen.

Markus

Well when open border policy stopped so did a major portion of immigration. We I think had a pretty good handle on what was coming across. Heck we had the U.S. Navy, Coast Guard, Custom, and eyes in the sky. Coupled with good intel, choke points, known departure locations it was easy to maintain decent border secuirty. If anyone was going to make though it was those in fast boats going balls to the wall. But then they took the greatest risks because as we know speed kills and it did on more than one occasion.


Personally I think if you want to stop the crisis offer the refugees a ticket to Detroit, tell them they're on their own, no handouts, no benefits, no housing not even the ones pictured above unless they buy it. Germany's immigration crisis will come to a screeching halt. We could also stop supporting the overthrow of Assad because like I said before after 200,000 dead and 11 million refugees he's still there so we may want to rethink our strategy.

As one of your prime ministers once said:
"Our island [sic!] is surrounded by the sea."

And at times, the channel is harder to cross, than the mediterranean.

Fear not, Great Britain :03:

You've forgotten about the Channel Tunnel.

The more desperate amongst the migrants have been attempting to hang on to the top of the rolling stock as it goes through the Chunnel.

Naturally, they're have been a few fatalities.

Shows they know bugger-all about heraldry /\ . The unicorn in the Times crest refers to the Scottish coat of arms, which features them.

Mike.

This is not directly directed at CCIP but to the unconditional pro refugees movement here:
This attitude doesn't help either. I've seen enough of it. Whenever someone is voicing concerns regarding refugees he's belittled or labeled homophobic, racist, Nazi etc the list goes on. That's not a solution as much as some of you would like to see through the pink glasses (especially since none of you will have to bear the brunt of the masses of refugees). This mass immigration is going to change the face of Germany and seeing how well that went the first time we got millions of Muslims into the country I don't think it will change for the better. Just keep denying that there are problems with parallel societies, increased crime by some immigrants, open hostility towards our culture by some (not all but by enough). We can of course also pretend that no other nation had ever issues and the suburbs of Paris have never been on fire...just don't let anything interfere with the pink dreams....

You might not share Skybird's believes but the constant whitewashing regarding refugees and demonizing of everyone who has concerns is just as sickening as the mentality of the Nazis who want to send everyone straight back.
I see the need to help these people but I also see the big problems that will cause in the long run and those problems need to be addressed and discussed just as much as the immediate help these people need.

Problem is he's not voicing concernes. He's raving about the death of civilization at the hands of the muslim hordes.
Those of us on this forum, so called ''moral crusaders'' already voiced concernes and added a few solution which unfortunately won't be implemented by the lazy elite.

I'm all for immigration but I also advocate ''one strike and you're out'' policy, complete assimilation when it comes to law of the land and a posibility to revoke a visa if the immigrant refuses to learn the official language, revocation of automatic citizenship for the child if both parents lack one (one should be enough though) but still give them education and benefits IF the parents pay taxes.
I'm a liberal nazi

In the news an hour ago

"Payback time. According to some UN spokesman. Is the EU due to the low Help to the Community in the Middle East, is the cause of this refugee flow "
(Used Google translate and still I can't get it right)

Markus

I think that one of the core points that was mentioned here is the problem of minorities.

Ie, when you get a minority that demands concessions from the majority. Example of such demands that were mentioned is banning pork, christian festivals and so on.

While I understand the need to protect minorities from opression, I am not convinced that minoriy forcing it's practices on a majority is a trully democratic process.

The problem I see is in the synergy of, ehem, very active minorities (who are used to defend their interests, even by the force of arms) with pro-active minority rights activists who undermine attempts to conduct decisive policy (ie integration of those minorities into existing local customs and practices) in regard to those minorities.

IMO Skybird is simply pointing out the obvious. Throughout history groups of humanity have congregated in certain areas of the planet and established their own borders traditions, laws and languages.

The mass of immigrants such as the numbers heading for Germany I doubt are going to be any different and become Germans. They will do what everyone else has done. Congregate together maintain their language traditions, laws and establish their own borders/neighborhoods.

Same thing happens here in the U.S. We just have a lot of space to share which helps keep us from getting on each others nerves.

How much immigrants would Saudi Arabia even offer shelter? Solidarity for their fellow muslims in need is a bit limited, or so it seems.
But they would have the space, the money and all possibilites to accommodate them, with their oil billions, and all those Princes with their private wealth.

But then, those countries do not look like preferred countries to flee to, i wonder why .. :03:

Well, a recent survey did highlight that one third of Scots remain in the area they were born or brought up for the entirety of their lives. That means that the remaining two thirds move elsewhere, abroad, other areas of Scotland and, most annoyingly for English Nationalists, moving to England and making themselves at home and "taking over"....!:O:

A very valid point. Integration demands that both parties indulge in some "give and take". Where the newcomers won't budge from their own customs in any way, shape or form, that's when problems start.

Mike.:hmmm:

The problem is not only in not seeking compromise on the part of the new minorites, as some people in those minorities would always be agreable to a compromise of some sort and you could deport the rest for breaching the local laws and customs (ie extreme example being honor killings).

The problem is when your policy is frozen by the minority rights activists, who generate their own political capital by precluding enforcing local laws and customs and/or a decent compromise.

Which leads to:
which (in it's extreme cases, for example should imigrants enforce a different law set such as sharia) is de-facto an invasion, as it displaces the local population, takes their territory and so on.