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-   -   Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged) (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196482)

JU_88 10-03-12 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1943594)
I'd be inclined to agree with Ju-88, Turkey is quite a formidable force on its own, and whilst it's bombing Syria it's not looking at Greece or Cyprus. I think it knows not to expect any help from NATO, but since Russia and China will be trying to put UN motions in place to sanction Turkey I'd wager that the UK and US will be quick to veto them, so Turkey knows we have their back in the UN, which is...well...where it matter least I guess. :haha:

It's certainly an interesting escalation...question is, will Iran decide to up the ante in its support to Syria if the Turkish go 'all in'?

Oh I dont think they are too worried about any shenanigans from the Greeks, they have enough on their plate as it is.

kraznyi_oktjabr 10-03-12 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 1943591)
Militarily speaking, Turkey is quite a force to be reckoned with, I dont suppose they will even need to request any U.N assistance all that desperately.

I understand. I don't mean anything related to UN but strictly NATO's own "attack against one, is attack against all" principle. If Turkey request NATO assistance can Western nations deny it without undermining whole idea of NATO? In other hand if USA and Co. agree then its "big evil America (and Western infidels) messing with others business" again.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm not thinking from military perspective but from PR one. What it looks like?

JU_88 10-03-12 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr (Post 1943600)
I understand. I don't mean anything related to UN but strictly NATO's own "attack against one, is attack against all" principle. If Turkey request NATO assistance can Western nations deny it without undermining whole idea of NATO? In other hand if USA and Co. agree then its "big evil America (and Western infidels) messing with others business" again.

EDIT: To clarify: I'm not thinking from military perspective but from PR one. What it looks like?

True, I dont know, The impression I get of the U.S and UK is that with the exception of a few war mongering hard liners, they really, really dont want to get involved in Syria. (Cant say I blame them) If they do, I expect it will be with a great degree of reluctance, its especially complicated with the likes of Russia pushing the other way.

Stealhead 10-03-12 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr (Post 1943585)
I hope so too. As Turkey is NATO member (atleast in theory) conflict between Syria and Turkey would also be conflict between Syria and UK, Syria and USA and so on. Something I would like to avoid.


Turkey is a member of NATO no theory to it they have been a member for some time.Turkey has been part of NATO since 1952.

Not sure why you have doubt about their standing. They are in on the missile defense shield.

Oberon 10-03-12 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88 (Post 1943602)
True, I dont know, The impression I get of the U.S and UK is that with the exception of a few war mongering hard liners, they really, really dont want to get involved in Syria. (Cant say I blame them) If they do, I expect it will be with a great degree of reluctance, its especially complicated with the likes of Russia pushing the other way.

In a situation like this I'd wager that the US/UK would put forward the theory that Turkey shot first, thus nullifying the NATO agreement. Alternatively, they will provide covert support to Turkey on the agreement that it will not call for public support from NATO.

kraznyi_oktjabr 10-03-12 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead (Post 1943603)
Turkey is a member of NATO no theory to it they have been a member for some time.Turkey has been part of NATO since 1952.

Not sure why you have doubt about their standing.

I don't have doubt whether Turkey is member or not but whether NATO members will respect request for military assistance in remotely possible case that Turkey request it.

Jimbuna 10-03-12 04:25 PM

According to the news a few moments ago Turkey have not gone down the Article 5 route but down that of Article 4 which only invokes consultation between NATO members.

Stealhead 10-03-12 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr (Post 1943609)
I don't have doubt whether Turkey is member or not but whether NATO members will respect request for military assistance in remotely possible case that Turkey request it.

According to CNN NATO said that they would if asked.

Only thing is if Turkey does go in how will Iran react to it?

Karle94 10-03-12 05:13 PM

Greece won`t touch Turkey and vice versa, both are NATO members and if they do something, they`ll have hell to pay. Also, Greece can`t fund enough troops to do anything any way.

August 10-03-12 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon (Post 1943604)
In a situation like this I'd wager that the US/UK would put forward the theory that Turkey shot first, thus nullifying the NATO agreement. Alternatively, they will provide covert support to Turkey on the agreement that it will not call for public support from NATO.

I'd think it would be kind of hard to claim that Turkey shot first when they're replying to a mortar attack that killed civilians.

soopaman2 10-03-12 05:18 PM

Turkey does not need the UK or US help. They are actually quite competent military wise.

They just need to be left alone while they handle their business.:03:

TLAM Strike 10-03-12 05:21 PM

Iranian and Russian "advisors" reported in Syria, a supposed sighting of an IRIAF F-5 and now the Turks fire shots across the border.

http://i45.tinypic.com/vdmyl3.gif

Stealhead 10-03-12 05:33 PM

Turkey has a decent military but at the same time I have seen it in action while on TDY to Incirlik AB they have interesting methods.

In my experience with Turkish troops some are pretty good but some are pretty meh and seem to lack any military bearing at all. Not sure how strong their discipline is to be honest it depends on what they are fighting for and if they are for it or not.I heard in Korea that they liked to go out at night and infiltrate enemy lines and cut off communist heads but they wanted to that I am betting because communists are atheists and therefore infidels so they can be nasty if you inspire them.

They also fire warning shots at the ground between your legs as a rule rather than into the air sometimes they "miss" and that is against just some derp Turk getting too close to the base.

TLAM Strike 10-03-12 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead (Post 1943682)
Turkey has a decent military but at the same time I have seen it in action while on TDY to Incirlik AB they have interesting methods.

They also fire warning shots at the ground between your legs as a rule rather than into the air sometimes they "miss" and that is against just some derp Turk getting too close to the base.

Yea I bet they were real nasty about defending Incirlik as that is where we stationed all the "special weapons" designated for their air force's use.

soopaman2 10-03-12 06:16 PM

Just put them on a plane, and tell them they are invading Cyprus.

Motivation problem solved. ;)


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