More and more news articles are bringing to light exactly what kind of Flim Flam this BS ACA is.:down: In my estimation, it's just another back door tax being foisted on everyone.:stare: The worst part of the lie is in the name of the law. It should have been called the Unaffordable insurance tax.

To me, healthcare reform would better serve if they brought down the exorbitant fees these doctors and hospitals want to charge.

IE: My primary care physician bills my insurance at the rate of $140.00 per visit, for five minutes of work. Which equals out to $1,680.00 an hour.:huh:

My Medicare insurance only covers a small portion of that thanks to an exorbitantly high deductible.


Exactly what has this new law reformed!?
Maybe we should all just march out to the woods and die. That would fix everything.

Who is "they"? The government?

Just curious, how would you suggest either the federal or state government to do this? Are you really advocating giving the government the authority to tell business people how much they can charge for their services/products?

Suppose the government decided that you are being overpaid?

No. That would be a very dangerous precedent. :nope:

Hey, in Germany we still pay 'taxes' for

1. The german fleet of pre 1914 - champagne is being taxed to support the german Navy; as William 2nd said "who has money for champagne can support the fleet".

2. The allied airlift to Berlin - Germany certainly had to pay for it, and so the parliament created an additional car tax to the already existing fuel tax, to finance the airlift.

We still pay for both. Taxes, once created, will never be taken back :yep:

"Taxes are never levied for the benefit of the taxed."
-Robert A. Heinlein

Not doubting what you state but how are you still paying taxes for something over one hundred years ago?

Income tax in the U.S.A. started around WWI.
It was said to only last to aid the War effort.
Once it was passed?
:har:
GFL getting it removed!

Read it. Thoroughly.

http://fusion.net/leadership/story/c...nalysis-102590

From what I understand, we are subsidizing this fiasco. Which as near as i figure it means that when you boil all the fat away, that all the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's will now have health insurance, and we will be paying for it. Freaking welfare state is what this is. I don't make much money, but I worked for every cent I have, and everything I own was from my own efforts. I have always earned my own way, and I have never asked anyone for anything. So the thought of me shelling out some of my money for the benefit of some lazy pieces of feces pisses me off.

All things considered the entire situation gets a mighty one fingered salute paired with a Foxtrot Uniform from me to Obama and the Democrats who foisted this crap.

From your source:

So, you're saying it's fascism?

That is in part but many were already on medicaid for free. The other aspect is the folks with pre-existing conditions. There will be a huge influx of people being able to get treatment. Many of these will be highly subsidized. The only way to afford this is jack up premiums and get the healthy young enrolled....PLUS....see to it that thousands get canceled for sub par insurance as dictated by the ACA. This forces higher premiums. So yeah, you can't keep that plan you like. The fix is in. America is just starting to smell the coffee. Where are all the cheerleaders we had in the original Obamacare thread? :hmmm:

I think they gave up on GT a long time ago.

I think most people have given up on having a reasonable discussion in GT and honestly on the internet in general. There seems to be an overwhelming lack of reasoning and argumentative skills on the whole, while there seems to be never ending amounts of stubborn, pig-headed bantering. There seems to be almost no one left who is actually willing to consider anything that isn't what they want to hear.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

This website sums up everything wrong with GT and the internet in general, and why arguing never ends up getting anywhere nor changing anybody's mind. Ive really considered just bookmarking the website and linking it whenever someone tries to manipulate a debate in such ways, instead of me responding at all.

I don't know, I have discussions with people in GT and in real life and we don't agree a lot of the time. I can handle that. Some people cannot.

Perhaps they see people throw out stuff like...
the getto mammas', crack whore's, and Juanita's with anchor baby's ...
and they think that some of the clientele on GT is not worth debating in any rational fashion.
Though as you note, those rather disparaging stereotypes were probably all already paid for under the previous system you had.:hmmm:

But I think the core of the issue over ACA is that most of the "cheerleaders" wanted a system like the noted "liberal" August supports, not the cop out compromise that was passed.

Yes, those colorfully described folks are already in the system. I believe the new influx automatically signed up for medicaid are those with preexisting conditions. I do not know what noted liberal August supports. The law may not have been a compromise if the bill was actually read before the vote. The website up and running as it should have been after 3 years and $600 million spent. The American public not lied too about being able to keep their plan. Grandfathered in as it were. The law subsequently changed that rendered the once grandfathered plans null and void. Premiums increasing and not decreasing $2500 as peddled by the President. What has been set up is a forthcoming government bailout for the ACA. The young that need to sign up will more than likely take the penalty for the first few years rather than sign up because of sticker shock. The entire system is in shambles. Yet, not one word has been spoken about reducing the cost of healthcare. We have the typical tax and spend elite handle the healthcare like anything else. Tax and spend. Throw money at the problem. Your money.

Good point. I forgot about medicaid.

Which means we are paying for it just the same.

You mean Obama lied? Shocker. :shifty:


EDIT:
Personally, I draw a distinct line between Internet, and real life. When discussing anything in real life, you have facial expressions, tones of voice, and body language. In real life, there are two topics i tend to avoid. Politics and religion. Which isn't to say I haven't discussed them in real life, i just try not do. More often then not, you know just how far to discuss it, when to let it go, and when to just disagree. Because the person your talking to is right there in front of you, and personally I don't discuss much with someone I don't already know, and no we don't always agree.

Internet is different in my book. You have NONE of what I described above. So i'll call it like i see it, because theres not much else to go on; and truthfully, I don't have much desire or patience to argue anything on any forum for very long. If you let yourself go at it too long, you end up wasting A LOT of time, writing a bunch of crap aimed at someone you really don't even know, have never met, and in reality, could probably give two cents about. In fact, you don't even know their name. All for what? Getting the last word in? Stoking ones own ego? It can almost be likened to intellectual masturbation. I tend to keep my posts short for this reason, and I skim or gloss over stunningly long walls of text, also for this reason.

Arguing on the internet. I'm just not really into it anymore, so I don't put much time in it. Getting the last word in, will net me nothing but wasted time. Just my nickles worth on that subject.

Yes, we pay for it just the same but quite a few are not welfare queens. These are folks that could afford or have insurance but a preexisting condition is not paid by insurance. The insurance industry has worn out the nonpaying preexisting condition ploy IMO.

Yes, he lied. But, perhaps he was just reading what the teleprompter was scrolling. This then makes one ask, "Just what does this guy know?" He seems to know nothing at the most convenient times.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...gument_616.jpg

'nuff said?

Obamacare is just like any other program the government sticks its nose in.
Too much, too soon. Over bearing, clumsy and just crap all the way around. Designed for one purpose. Putting money in the pockets of rich investors. In other words, politics as usual.
After all, it was the wealthy elite who started the medical boondoggle we know today.

That's a problem I have with this administration. Every time they screw up one of them takes the public stage to claim responsibility but there never seem to be any consequences for it.

It seems to be the modern political equivalent of "my bad". That fake apology that's used to avoid any real ownership of a mistake.

When a politician states "I take full responsibility", what they actually mean is that you should not talk about it any more.:nope:

I would love for the press to respond to "I take full responsibility" with "What does that mean Senator/Representative/Mr. President?" and wait for an answer.

Perhaps this is a question the citizens need to start asking.

Of course the whole idea of a politician being responsible and accountable is laughable at the start... Except that fewer and fewer of us are laughing.

Speaking of which, in Virginia, we are having an election on Tuesday. It will be interesting to see exactly how many people are unhappy with the state government. In a democratically elected government, there is only one poll that really counts.

The difference between what people tell pollsters and how they vote can be surprising.