How much they slide into the view.. allthough I seem to have worse problems.. I think my HD is going to quit on me soon so i will figure the mod out ltr

Well, Karamazov....all that I can say is that you are not only a genius but also a gentleman. Thanks a lot.

And if it´s too difficult, please don´t worry...I already concluded that is better to play low res with your firing computer that higher res without it.:)

The handle items will always move their parent left or right by a certain amount. Once I parented the handles by mistake to the main screen and it pushed my entire interface offscreen :har:. The amount of movement is equal to parent's width. The direction of movement depends (i guess) on which side the handle sits. But if you change the parent width you'll also screw up all the dials. So unless you make a new panel from scratch, there's no solution.

I don't consider myself to be a gentleman, but thank you :arrgh!:

Back to work. I've transformed the scope marks to work as miliradians. They were made with excel formulas and done to a less than 1 pixel precision at 1600x1200 resolution. Just to recap, a ship of a height of 10 meters at a range of 1000 meters will span 0.572938698 degrees vertical. Tangent(0.572938698)=0.01. Since the tangent function is almost linear at low angles and the marks only span around 11 degrees at 1.5X zoom, a linear formula can be used based on that value:

Here's a test at 1024/768 (it is identical to any other resolution). The tanker in the image is 28 meters high, 190 m long, is at 1000m (precisely) and has an aob of perfect 90 degrees.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2397/milirad.jpg

And here's something weird. This is the Bismark with a mast of 57 and a length of 251. This was made at 1920x1080, but it's the same for all resolutions. Notice that the heigth is a correct 5.7 milirads.:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5544/apmarks2.jpg

But the length should've been 25.1 milirads long. But it's not. Same marks, same formula. At first I thought my formula needed to change for length marks. And indeed, the formula for half angle tangent (required for the simmetry of length around the Lock position) leads to a value of 0.572953021 and not 0.572938698 but the error is laughable 0.0000143229. Conclusion? The Bismark in game has a wrong length of almost 280 meters. How many ships have wrong values I have no idea. So I hope that someone will start making a TMT mod for SH4 as it's badly needed.

Very nice precission, I told you that something weird was going on with ship dimensions :up:

Anyway, why didn't you use the same reticle style as the one I sent you?

Mine is positively one installed in a real german Uboat periscope, while yours -the one that can be seen frequently in period videos- is 99% sure a fake added while filming.

You're right, I will. I wanted to do it myself from scratch because to be honest I wanted to understand the mechanics behind it. Since 2 people ended up with exactly the same thing (I did an overlap just now, even with a scaling issue it was still <1 pixel difference), at least we know that the marks are fine. Indeed there is something strange with the ships. I did some speed tests on the Bismark, at different AOB's, ranges. I used automatic formulas to get the length from the time of pass... It varied from 250m to 270m while the TDC showed no changes in the speed. I'd be damned if I can tell what's going on. I'll use the file you've sent me now that I'm 100% convinced that it's perfect. I'll also only use it with Excel formulas to remake the AOBF wheel. Do you have by any chance an AOBF wheel made for milirad marks?

Nope sorry, but isn't the only difference the point where you must read to get the result? :hmmm:

Actually I was hoping for just an outer circle that doesn't have this problem:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=156

Did the ships appear longer, the further the AOB was from 90 degrees?

I didn't notice that. I only applied the fixed wire method for a ship of known speed to extrapolate it's length. But the ships do seem to be wider than in SH3. There I could estimate the AOB visually within 10 degrees accuracy. Here however... :doh:.

hello Kara,

i measured the Bismarck in sh4 and i found that its length is 270m
i see that in .cfgs its length is setted at 251m so i can definetely say that the length for Bismarck is not right

keep up the real good work :up:

something else that i noticed is that if you press on ship's name (in order to bring up the rec manual) the only thing is showing is that length's bar of rec manual .
if i clic on recmanual icon then its ok ...the rec appears
is it possible to make the rec manual appear when i clic on ship's name ?
and also the length's bar of rec is displaced . if it is hard to place the length's bar to the proper place then i think that can be putted tottaly outside of screen (as this bar is not needed at all)
see the pics:
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...an94/kara1.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...an94/kara2.jpg

Thanks Makman. The recognition manual problem is hardcoded. You'll see the exact same behavior if you go to the Obs Scope or UZO and press on the "SHIP:" label in the notepad. The first time you click it, it works, after that it just shows the small scale and it doesn't go away unless you open up the manual by hand and close it again. For example, for me, the scale under the ships has never been in the right position. I had already explained this small quirk in the small guide. Unfortunately, since I had based and tested the AOB inner circle from my readings on the Bismarck, you can guess what it did to the precision :wah:.

my thought is that the u-jagd rings are well made as it was in original images ( a very tiny misallinged marks there when turn the inner ring 180 degrees but really this is not big deal)
what is needed ,imo, is to find a ship with correct dimensions and see if the original rings works (without changes at the rings set)
if there is not even one ship with correct dimensions then you will have to find the correct dimensions for one ship
i can find the real mast for the bismarck if you like and then use this ship as a guide for the rings (although ...i believe that the rings are ok with its original set)
the problem with the sh4 is that i cannot import the malloys ruler in the game in order to be able to get the EXACT distances on map ( i used some 'time eaters' tricks to confirm the true speed of Bismarck in the mission i created to use for finding its true length ) (becuase ,sometimes , you set the speed- in ME - at 6 knots BUT ,for some reason that only the sh's cursed engine knows,the ship is not doing EXACTLY 6 knots ingame!)
but i can do it (i think ) to get its real mast ...have to try it
do you want me to ...proceed ?

Yeah, part of the problem is that ships start mission at zero speed and accelerate, and this tends to screw the results. :hmmm:

yes Hitman,thats why the ship must be set to start its 'trip' far away from us !
but ,again, i remember when i was creating the TMT mod that for some reason and only for SOME ships was not doing EXACTLY the setted speed (always for these measurments the wind was set to 0).probably has to do with its settings at their .sims (engine power...etc)...i really don't know

For any ship in SH4, there are three heights, the historicaly accurate height of the ship in question, the height (or is it length) set in the config file and the height of the 3d model. None of these dimensions have to (and often don't) match up. Same goes for lengths. The only way to check the model you are testing is to export it from S3D, measure it in a 3D program and that's the length/height to use in testing.

EDIT: Oh yes and you can't measure height accurately ever, due to some very poor mechanics in the game.

you can measure using S3D too, one unit in S3D is 10m.
e.g. if you place a node at the bow of a ship and the coordinates are 0;0;3.2 and you place a node at the stern, coordinates 0;0;-2.8 the length of the ship is (3.2-(-2.8))*10=60m

Yes good point, absolutely right DarkFish, you can do that, but I was thinking mainly that if you have Max, or similar, it's much faster to export and click measure, than it is to try to place nodes and nudge them into position. I should rephrase that the only way to see what length the ship is in game, is to measure the 3D model in some way :DL.

oh Darkfish...if only i knew that when i was making the TMT.... i would have save a lot of time ! ( where are these infos when you need them...).VERY GOOD METHOD you pointed !:up:

@Nisgeis: you can get the length in game .i measured Bismarck's length and found it 'close' to 270m .i am saying 'close' becuase the clock in sh4 is showing only seconds (without demicals) .the time that Bismarck needed to cross the vertical line of peri was something between 87-88 sec .i took it as 87.5 and then length=(6x87.5x1.852)/3.6= 270.08333

i measured it again with the method suggested by Darkfish and the s3d showed length=270.9
the difference is not big deal (the cause of the difference is the exact time that Bismarck needed to pass the vertical line.the exact time was 87.75 and not 87.5 that i guessed it was).BUT if i knew the method that Darkfish suggested i would for sure used that method...you save a lot of time . so, both methods work and that proves that there is not only one way to get the real length (real for the game ...not for real life)

about the mast value:

the mast value that you will set at .cfgs is the value that also the player will see ingame. and this value is exactly the value ( and the only one ) that the game is using to calculate the range (and the player via stadimeter).so,if the mast value is wrong at .cfgs then the calculated ranges will be also wrong . and it doesn't matter if it is a value for mast , you can choose any spot of the ship as a 'hot' spot to aim with stadimeter ( angle....mast...range)
and yes, you can find the accurate mast value (especially at sh4 which has better resolutions) .the only thing that you need is..patience (and as i said,it doesn't have to be the mast's height ...you can choose any part of the ship...the more vissible is..prefered like flags or funnels in some cases)

s3d (or 3d programmes) doesn't seem very helpfull at getting the real mast becuase you don't know where the waterline is for each ship. their .sims files are controling the part of the ship that will be above ( or under) the water and each ship has its own settings at .sims .BUT it will be very nice if someone find a way to get them from s3d . if this happens then it will be a piece of cake the fixes to ships's dimensions
but as i was writting this post .... i remembered something (but i am not sure about this)...someone has allready made some fixes for ships's dimensions for sh4 or no ?