Thanks Jim for the clear and open message. It is refreshing to hear such openess and honesty.

I fall into that group of people that has SH4 gathering dust on the shelf. I was excited by the U-Boat Missions update but decided not to buy it based on feedback in these forums.

When GWX announced it was going to work on a SH4 + Uboats ATO Mod I decided that I finally buy the U-Boat Missions update when GWX 4 was finished.

Of course, the announcment of SH5 has effectively thrown a grenade into all that.

I do believe that developing a mod in an open environment, with regular updates etc, whets the appetite. It also allows the commuity to exchange knowledge and build upon the work of others. Consider this as the Open Source approach to modding.

Developing a mod behind closed doors, as adopted by GWX, smacks of old school corporate software development.

I imagine more people would have taken up an SH4 interest + U-Boat missions if GWX 4 got them drooling at the mouth, consequently supporting UBI and, according to some, the sub sim community as a whole.

I believe it is now time for GWX to realise that this closed shop approach to modding is not really the best way to support the subsim community.

You say that RL issues have had an effect on GWX4 development schedule. I wonder if this could have been avoided by a more open approach. How else can someone else take up the reigns when RL intervenes if they have been left in the dark ? So even the GWX team itself would benefit from a more open approach, as will the subsim community and possibly the sales figures of UBI.

Right, now lets put all that aside. My oppinion is GWX should continue developing GWX4, but only those parts that are likely to be portable to SH5.

I agree with Uber Gruber. but not with last sentence.
"My opinion is GWX should continue developing GWX4, but only those parts that are likely to be portable to SH5"
instead continue developing GWX4, but only those parts that you think are not in SH5,
and after SH5 is released, port Sh5 parts to GWX4 GOLD version.:D

To all who have fielded support for our team and project on this thread, thank you.

You have not been forgotten...

Personally speaking, time has been my enemy like never before, for long months now... (what I refer to is lack of spare time) so I can only be brief here and now... There is so much I would like to say.

I can only assure you that there are very good reasons for ALL the things we do... and though sometimes 'you-the reader' may not understand... and may subsequently make negative assumptions... sometimes that is well worth the price, to preserve a methodology that has proven to work for us time and time again. (Not being snarky here... but accusations that we are in any way 'anti-community' simply don't bother me in the slightest... In fact, the idea makes me laugh a little.)

Whether we succeed or fail... I will post the outcome to you. You will not be left wondering what happened to GWX4 in years to come. I've got the chops to tell you the truth be it good or bad. Naturally, fielding an explaination of failure would make me uncomfortable... but it would also be a release in many ways... not just for me... but for anyone waiting and hoping. Nor would I leave it to Jimbuna to scuttle the ship while I jump out!

JScones has asked some valid questions and Jimbuna has responded accurately. I hope to add my own take to the mix here by this coming Sunday night (US Central Standard Time)

Other personal notes:

@Adriatico... quite the contrary mate. I actually enjoy your posts... and I think we actually share the same dark sense of humor. I don't hold a single bad thought for you. :shucks:

@Uber Gruber... Every time I respond to one of your negative posts... you do your best to make me out to be rather paranoid... so in short, my response to you now is, "Stick it up your... NOSE!!!" Now I've kept up my reputation for being... ummm... 'direct'. Open modding invites a cast of thousands, promotes 'fog' and pandemonium.

"Developing a mod behind closed doors, as adopted by GWX, smacks of old school corporate software development."

Whatever man, we just needed a quiet place to work away from all the distractions here. That's not being elitist... it just works... and gives our developers a place to screw-up on occasion without being under the microscope of public criticism and ridicule. From the 'management stand-point... I'd rather lead a swift and sharp team, than an amorphous-gaggle any day. (Really and truly... I am not trying to be condescending... its just good common sense. If you had a fair idea of just how much communication is required via email, PM, private and public forum posts, teamspeak, and cell-phone texts/calls... you'd understand what I mean. Leading a project to a focused and successful release via mass public involvement... is SOOOO not the way to produce something lasting and meaningful IMHO.)

Crimeny! The community has always received the functional data we've built and/or modified as we've executed releases anyway... which nullifies what appears to be your chief complaint.

(Now, I think I'll triple my pay and give myself another bonus, award myself some medals, and have a few more Borg implants drilled into place. :haha:)

hooah Kpt. Lehmann!

i almost stood and clapped!
:D
I appreciate all the GWX team has done for the community, giving us a realistic experience second to none in a game, and I will always continue to support and be awestruck by what the team has accomplished. I can only hope that they will continue to give us the same realism and excitement that they've given us over the past years.

GWX crew, I salute you!
:salute:

My morale support and respect for GWX team is irrespective of wether they will succeed finishing GWX4 or not. Don't you anyone forget that they have already done enourmous job with SH3 and brought it up to unimaginable level for what I again bow my head low. I can only pretend that I imagine what a hell of hard work is to be in charge of the team and for team members to carry responsability for given tasks.
I keep questioning myself how come they never run out of steam and keep pushing forward no matter what. After all they have put they paws on SH4 straight away after finishing with GWX3 with almost no rest.

Even if it would happen that production of GWX4 would stuck or would get aborted we are still having SH5 in our minds to cheer us up right ? :)

No matter how high or low in luck GWX will be I'll stay by your side GWX at least moraly:sunny:

P.S. Hoping for the best, prepared for the worst :)

SH5 or GWX4?
For me, GWX brought me back to SH3 even after SH4 came out, and it kept me addicted to SH3. SH4 has better graphics than SH3, has a bit more features to the game, and much faster loading time (to be honest, THAT is the biggest advantage to me!). However, SH4 was designed for a larger and more mainstream audience, and I imagine that hundreds of thousands of people who bought it no longer play it.

GWX was made BY those who loved the game and the genre, FOR those who loved the game and the genre. SH4 was made for the average sim player, who wanted to see bigger explosions and better scenery. GWX was made for those who wanted more realism, those who were more concerned about the accuracy and detail instead of the eye candy (although GWX brought us plenty of that) - those who would notice, let alone care, if the minefields at Brest weren't accurate!

Despite the best wishes and intentions of the UBI Romania developers, SH5 will likely have to appeal to a much broader audience than those who frequent the SUBSIM and UBI forums, or it will not be successful. The GWX team has made their mods specifically for those who do frequent these forums, and I imagine many of us will be still playing - and enjoying - GWX3 and hopefully GWX4 long after SH5 comes out. And if he GWX team decides not to finish GWX4, I know that we will still enjoy the individual mods that many of them will likely create to make SH5 even better.

Dmlavan, grats for the best comment I've seen in a long time :woot:. I hope you won't mind if I'll quote it from time to time.

Thanks for the kind words. And I haven't started charging royalties for my likeness....yet! :up:

I like the way GWX do's things. I want to be surprised as I was with all GWX versions.

I install as instructions ( that are so easy to understand )

and follow gameplay instructions ( not adding mods while at sea ) and have NEVER had a CTD. EVER.

So don't change a thing. I want to be SURPRISED. :woot: :yeah:

Gwx is the Sim. SH3 is the add-on :haha:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9...2horsesass.jpg


How Much ? :har:

I think many people here are forgetting something worth mentioning: SH4 is different to SH3, yes, but they have a common base and many development tools are shared (Silent Editor, etc.), while in SH5 we have, according to the announcement "Full new code".

The experience gained by the old SH3 modders, and particularly by the GWX guys with those both sims is incredible, having achieved things that even the own Devs hadn't thought about. I guess that SH5 will have in that sense its own steep learning curve for modders, so nobody can say that a GWX5 would come just a few months after the SH5 release.

Then, my experience as modder with the venerable Pacific Aces also shows me that a good modding team is like a greased machine, operating swiftly and with an objective, but that stopping it generates rust and kills the working pace. I guess that putting GWX4 on hold and waiting for SH5 end version and starting again would mean losing a good amount of the team, who will fade away in other projects. You can't have so many talented people without doing something, that's a fact I learned long ago.

Add to all the previous the probably killer PC you will need to run SH5, and you get a good picture of why GWX4 is still worth continuing, even if the scope of it is somewhat reduced (Not the quality of the product) if KL sees fit.

@dmlavan....High praise indeed.....thanks http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif

@mookie...LMAO :DL

@FIREWALL....Does KL have you on pay :o

@Hitman...Food for thought :hmmm:

To all...Till Sunday http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

One thing we appreciate here is the respect shown concerning this topic. Thanks, guys, all of you.

SH3 campaign getting total overhaul?
 

I don't think anybody's done a SH3 campaign as comprehensive as RSRDC for SH4. I assume that the GWX 4 campaign will be getting an almost complete rewrite, hopefully focused on realism? If so one thing I would like to see is having friendly u-boats show up as opportunity contacts-and if we could order some of them around (as was done in the original SH4), we could set up mobile picket lines. Even if the AI subs can't shoot their torps, they could at least distract the escorts.

GWX Devs and senior testers, please report to the GWX4 dev forum for important briefing.

Thank you.

I bought SH4 plus add-on, copied my clean install and created a handful of folders, one of which is named GWX4 and patiently awaits The Day. The others contain RFB, TMO, Opmon etc. All of those are excellent mods and I hardly play any of them since most of my subsimming time goes to GWX3 which is still the best gaming experience of my life, ever.

As such I would never dream of saying what the team should do, they will do as they see fit and the result will be impressive. If their efforts are redirected to SH5 then that will be tough luck for me and if I expected anyone to care about that, I should reconsider my place in the universe :rotfl:

My message to the GWX team is simply this: Thank you for what you did so far and the best of luck with whatever you do from now on
(possibly a bit over the top but I just can't get over how great GWX3 is, lol)

bosje's two cents spent

I concur, Bosje, I have a separate install waiting as well!


I just got done playing Operation Monsun, and even though it is a great mod, I still wasn't riveted to my seat the way I am with GWX. :yeah:

and in reference to Kpt. Lehmann's post...
mmmmm, the plot thickens!

I must say Im very distressed at the thought that GWX4 wont be done.
From the opening movie (and its haunting song, which I went on to track down and add to my music collection) to watching my Luftwaffe mates stealing my tonnage, to having my arse handed to me by irate tin can skippers, the GWX team took SH3 to a whole new level of simulation gaming and I was VERY excited when I learned of GWX4. I hope it gets done.

There should be an announcement here within the the next 24 hours or so http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...ies/pirate.gif

you know, I wonder....

Since SH4 is a more easily modified platform, re-create some of the add-ons people have made since it's release, modify it slightly, add some new units...

I wonder if this could be the release of GWX4!

*jerks*
gah!
daydreaming again!