You see.. that isn't cool.

You want to push off the discussion of nuclear weapons to a different time.. a time that will likely see the sim in major development and more likely to draw off much debate about those weapons giving them a greater chance of them being included.

So either you want these nuclear torpedoes or these ICBMs or both or whatever...

With the nuclear torpedo there isnt a reason to attack because the foe will simply send a nuc torp on a snapshot and sink you with the blast. He may dodge the weapon you fired and go home. Or maybe you also fired one and you are both dead.

Game over...

Or you are sitting in an Ohio where you ought to be having fun doging the other side's desperate hunt for you. However now you want the ability to deploy your Human race ending payload? Against who? A simulated Iran? Maybe Sim North Korea deserves a volly today? A simulated China pissing you off?

What does this got to do with gameplay. Its a "I win" button in the least.

There is never a one shot wonder. If you toss your load everyone is going to toss theirs and thats it. Almost everyone is dead. There is no sneaky way to do it. If you want anything why not just have the screen say "Game over" the moment you press the launch button. It will save alot of coding work.

Can't it wait until there are sensors? or weapons? or a GUI? Don't you think that is a little more important?

Agreed....

Can't this wait till we have some of the more basic things functional and the we can decide gameplay, doctrines, available units and such at a later time.

While I would love to see a discussion on the matter, this is not the time nor place for it. We (or more correctly, Dr. Did) are working on a physics model for submarine movement and operations.

In other words. Please stop hijacking this thread.

Thank you.

Just making my views known now. As im sure it will be tried in the future. Atleast I may have planted some realistic seeds here.

Dr. Sid have you come up with any ideas based on the above links on how to provide a semi-realistic dyamic lce layer?

While on the subject of ice, how will subs surface through the ice? Will it be like dangerous waters, or will they actually be able to fully surface through ice?

Nukes:
- Since I want to have adding new platforms or modifying of existing platforms as easy as changing your signature in Outlook, I can't completely disable them.
They will be available, at least as unofficial add-on.
I have seen games with nukes. On of that good old F18 simulators had it. Korea and Iraq. Very popular areas for bombing these days I guess. You even could flatten the city with it. You even had to use them in one mission, but not against city, but ships on open water. It also was not megaton doom devices but small tactical nukes.

I think we really don't need nukes to use them. It's not realistic, since they were not used. On the other hand, the boats carried them. Some still do I guess. The feeling of carrying world's end, not wanting but willing to use it if needed .. I think that is something witch coldwar-modern subsim must try to capture. There also MUST be missions of type 'prevent that Typhoon from firing'. At least the launch must be there.

We don't have to stress the damage. We can allow lunch and let the missiles vanish in the deep space. But really, these 'things' do exists. They are designed to being used. You might not like it. I don't like it. But I don't like 'political correctness' too. Somebody will complain about nukes in sim ? Complain about real nukes first.


Configs:
Everything, including GUI, will be easily configured. No projects, no building. TXT files and nothing more. Adding new playable will be matter of having 3d model and notepad.exe.
There will be some scripting language. Lua is candidate number 2, candidate number 1 is again my own language. That will allow some more control. But I'm not fully decided yet. I did something with Lua but it was some time ago, must check new features and so.
There will be chance to add DLL, but I guess it will be needed only in extreme situations, where speed would be needed. I think (based on my work experience) the scripting language (and the database design in the first place) would suffice for most tasks.

Ice:
I would like to have better ice than DW. But ice really is a pain. It would be great if it could break and stay broken. If you could break through with ice breaker ship and another ship could use that broken area. It would be great to have many small ice floes correctly floating and colliding with surfacing sub (and with each other). But that all is pretty expansive. I can't tell at the moment what will be possible. But I can promise I'll try. :88)
As for sonar conditions under the ice, that seems to be no much complications (while big differences).

I think that it is where and how thick ice is that is more important than how it acts.

Things like ice staying broken will cost huge amounts of code work and resources and to be honest.. what is the point? Icebreakers are nice but not very useful in a subsim.

Simple broken ice parts hanging around when you surface are fine. And the occasional polar bear attack. :rock:

I like the idea about having the missile vanish in space. The tactical nukes in addons I guess can't be helped much short of capping the max amount of explosive force.

Hunting a simulated SSBN that can actually launch is going to be fun in that case. I look forward to playing that.

I really suggest giving Lua a view again if it has been some time since youve played with it. Having Lua will greatly reduce the documentation you will need to do since LUA is highly documented and there are totorials. Use the simple parts of lua and mission script writters as far as mission editiors ought to find it easy to make them.

As long as where ice is supposed to be it is and where the sea is ice free it is unlike DW where you can be sailing along in supposedly ice free waters and then sink from hitting ice which doesn't show up in any display.

One thing and I think this is to do with physics is how collisions will work. IN DW you bump something you damage until dead, you can be in dock and wave motion makes you bump the dock and you die.

How are you planning to work this in? I know this is in the future but having working tugs would be fun that would back you into position from the wharf or if you have a surface vessel it can ram small boats without inflicting heavy damage in itself.

I feel there is going to have to be a sorta effect like you said for the ice except this one I think will occour from the monthy change.

At first I thought that the ice layer needs to be fixed at runtime.. However, you run into the problem of long patrols running over the months which quickly ages the freshness of the layer.

Having a constantly changing layer means a ton of code work to manage the resource hit. Accepting the gameplay cost by having it update every month is worth it.

The good thing is. Multiplayer requires the centeral server to generate the ice layer and send it. That will likely be upwards of 3mb per client. Because you have to limit time to 1x there is no need to have the layer update.

Lots of interesting information in the operational section for fleet boats. I'll try to add some notes later. Two things which I recall are:

(1) We've heard the sequence "green board" and "pressure in the boat". The green board as everyone knows is that all external openings are sealed up. "Pressure in the boat" - once sealed, air is bled into the boat and the diving officer makes sure that the pressure remains constant as this done as a final test that the boat is truely tight before he takes her down.

(2) During a dive due to operations and firing of torpedoes, it is possible that pressure can build up in the boat to the point that a sudden drop could cause injury. Upon preparing to surface, the captain and bridge crew seals themselves in the conning tower. The positive pressure in the small space of the conning is not nearly as great as the whole boat. Thus, upon surfacing, without worrying about pressure, the captain and the bridge crew can get to their stations very rapidly.

Thats WWII type info no?

And I think Sid needs more in the line of equations and numbers he can use to improve the simulation no?

Well, actually, I think operation with ballasts and air probably isn't that different than WWII. So, I was posting interesting here. Also, leading to interesting additional comments from some of the nuke service vets.

But, if Dr. Sid says not to post here, I gladly won't waste my time.

Hopefully there will be a research forum on the forums where you can post that soon.

Mmm.. baiting someone??

A nuke boat has only 4 main people sized passages to the outside enviroment. When you 'rig for sea/rig for dive' there is a checklist that you have to go thru before you can dive. By the time you have left the pier, you know that the aft escape trucks and the weapon shipping hatch has been secured/rigged properly. When the linehanders come down, they do the rig for dive checklist and close out the forward escape trunk. This leaves just the hatch to the bridge. This will not be closed out till just before the dive but as it is just one hatch it is not all that big a deal time wise.

One reason they put a pressure on the boat was to make sure that the major hull opening were indeed shut. You have the various ingress/egress hatches (and a LOT of those) plus the main air induction for those BIG engines. There are a lot of valves on a diesel boat that can kill you quick if an electrical indication switch was to stck in the wrong position or a seal was not in the greatest shape.

Unlike the diesel boats of yore, nukes do not have the huge problem of equalizing the air pressure inside the boat with the outside. In the old days, you could have a pretty good pressure built up and if you 'popped the hatch' it could fling the hatch open and pop you right out with the sudden air movement. The reason for sealing themselves in the conning tower was to limit the amount of air that could be expelled due to a positive pressure thus not explosively tossing someone over the side and/or possibly damaging a watertight hatch while doing it. They had to get topside FAST and make sure that it was safe for surface running. Then the rest of the boat could equalize as they opened the air valves for the main engines and lined up for external ventilation.

Things like stright board are still used as a quick indicator of the the status of the major hull openings, but procedures and knowledge control a lot of the little things that can get you in trouble. Besides, the little valves will make one heck of a mess but not sink you real fast.

Hello gentleman (and ladies).

New official forum of the subsim is at CADC.

http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

If you want to ask question of 'yet another' aspect of the game, create new thread there. I'd be glad if even continuing this thread could somehow transfer there.

Next to a forum (which is posted above) I've just added a Project Tracker here : http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...hp?projectid=1 (take note, only registered users can post bugs, tasks and features.). Furthermore the ComSubSim Wiki is online too (tho currently empty).

I know I have to get registered for other forums. In the meantime, another interesting note.

The trim of the boat may from time to time require readjustment. It is often neglected that the compressed air in the flasks can easily weigh four tons or more.

The process of adjusting buoyancy based on various changes which occur on the boat is known as "compensation". There are three various chart/mathematical oriented short cuts which can be used to rapidly compute appropriate compensation.

I hope more people will start discussing on the new forums. I look forward to seeing you there!

http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=87

Now that I have dsl, I've finally been able to download and look at this. Great job y'all! I do have one thing to note, and I'm not sure if my eyes just can't notice it or not. When I move the sail planes, I can notice them moving...when I move the aft planes, I can't see them moving at all. Is this just because of the weird angle from the back?

Aft planes does not move. The model I have does not support it yet.
Next version for release will have also Akula sub (same model as in LWAMI) which has all planes animated (rudder too).

PS: anyway the maximum angle of planes is 30 degrees, it is CLEARLY visible. If you don't have serious problem with your eyes, of course. Btw. I'm not sure in which version I introduced the animation of sail planes, but I'm sure it is in the last one (with the round globe).