Which country would threaten Russia with nukes if they start to invade Ukraine ?
I say the west would rather see Ukraine being invaded than engage Russia on the battlefield. Yes NATO may give some kind of assistance to Ukraine-But it will not be boots on the ground or air born support.

Markus

^ Then which 'support' is this?
NATO should rather agree that Ukraine does not become a NATO member, than to let it be invaded by Russia.
In which (latter) case NATO already said it will do nothing. What kind of answer is this?
A nuclear strike is of course unrealistic, but imho it would be the only answer that works for a free Ukraine not to be invaded by Russia.
And if NATO lets this happen you can guess which country will be next.

^ Personally I say that Ukraine shall not become a member of NATO.
It can cooperate with NATO like Sweden and Finland does.

If you could read Swedish then you would read stuff like

Huge caravan of tanks and other vehicle on it's way to Nynäshamn to be transported to Gotland.

Sweden think Gotland would be next.

Here is what it is written on Swedish telefax

"Increased military presence on Gotland
The Armed Forces is strengthening its presence on Gotland. This was confirmed for SVT on Saturday.
We will be in the places where we are needed most, says Therese Fagerstedt, Swedish Armed Forces
press secretary, to SVT News
The increased efforts are part of the "contingency adjustment" that is underway due to the security policy situation. Several military transports arrived on Gotland on Friday and
Saturday. Other coastal stretches in the country have also strengthened, according to DN.

Hultqvist: Attacks can not be ruled out

On the night before Saturday, soldiers and military vehicles arrived on Gotland.
Minister of Defense Peter Hultqvist (S) tells SR: s Ekot that there are also reinforcements in the rest of the country.

-It is important to show that we are not naive. Sweden will not be taken to bed if anything happens. It is
important to mark and send signals that we take this situation seriously.
When asked by Ekot if there is a real risk of an attack on Gotland, Hultqvist answers:
-It is clear that there is a risk. An attack on
Sweden can not be excluded.
"

Markus

The E.U. and Nato missed the bus on this one they should have made the Ukrine a full member of E.U. and Nato and the west would'nt be in the situation we are in now.


After Mr Putin invades the Ukrine would that be the end of is march westwards and he has no more teritorial claims that sounds rater familiar don't it just.
Then Russian forces invade the Baltic States Estonia Lithuania Latvia and also Finland like the Russians did in 1940.


Would there be a military responce from Nato other than diplomatic hot air language.
Then Putin Pushes is luck some more pushes into Poland as far as Brest Litvosk like when the Germans and the Russians met in September 1939 when between them they carved up Poland or Russia takes all of Poland
with no responce from Nato due to no political will France Germany dither then Putin demands East Germany back.

is it a European problem Uncle Sam needs to keep out of this one is that flawed thinking but what if the Krazy Ivan then wants Alaska Back if you dont agree to my demands I Mr Putin will put hyper sonic misiles in Cuba what then that would be a fox in the hen coup for sure.


If war comes the British will be writing war songs with whoops bumpsadaisy and tickertyboo in the corus for sure :D

The West "missed the bus" much earlier, that was when thinking that history had come to an end (Fukuyama) after the cold war was "won" and one thought one could afford to ignore the Russians and one crept NATO eastward after giving them verbal reassurances and promises that exactly this would not be done if they would play ball and agree to a neutral buffering zone build by former Sovjet vasalls. That was one of their preconditions to play ball, and American and Western diplomats verbally reassured them that this would be honoured. when The Bsaltic sttaes and Poland asked for emmberhsip, they could ask, but the Wets had any right there is not only to say yes, but also to say No. And the latter was what maybe we should have done as long as the Russians honoured their part of this "gentlemen's agreement". Instead, we cheated therm. This betrayal, as the Russians - imo rightfully - see this, was not just a geopolitical weakening of Russia (which was known and wanted in Washington), and a loss of face and reputationb and thus a nice opportunity to take "revenge" for whatever, but also a big narcissistic offence, an injuring of their selfunderstanding that really hurt their ego. And it was completely unneeded. Russia was down for quiet some years, it was weak. We should have swallowed our laughter and feelings of triumph, but step back and leave them the time to get their acts together without us abuzsing their wekaness. There was an opportunity to not only sow some seeds, but also maybe seeing them blossoming, who knows, but Western capitols decided that it was not enough, they wanted more. I remidn of that in the years when Pution had took over form drunken Yeltzin, his politics towards Europe were VERY differently, and in the West he was celebrated as a new Alexander who sought to close ranks with Europe. After his speech - in German, if I recall correctly, in the Bundestag, hearts flew to him. And I think he meant serious what he offered. At leats he had the hpe that it could work. And then came the big Russian desillusionizing.

And here we are where we are today. Comepletly innocent in how things came, we are not. We certainly did your foul share, too.


Nevertheless, today we have no other chance anymore than to learn to play tough again.


We expected the Russians to endlessly be stupid and to endlessly act to their disadvantage. We thought Russian interests get lab-designed by Western philantropists and ideologoists and capitalistic predators, and that democracy would be a beacon that all world, also the islamic world, wants inevitably to follow. We were full of and we were drunk of ourselves, and we had made the idea that somebody does not want to share the shine of our glory, unimaginable. Iraq 2003 was a result of this overconfidence. Its beyond our comprehesion that maybe others do not share our self-definition of that we are the greatets, the finest, and the most admired ones. What many others indeed want, and only want fromus, is money. Our ideas they often wish we would keep for ourselves. That is especially true in the Islamic world.

That is no one-sided excusing of Russia that I want to do here. I just try to be realistic, and try to see things from their side, and try to see Wetsern self-defionition a bit more sober, and realistic. We do not define what Russia's interests were, and are, and we often define these Russian interests according to our selfinterests. And this, until today, is the biggest mistake we ever made with Russia. It hinders Europeans until today to realise what now angry and willing-to-fight beast they are now dealing with. Russia defines its interests all by itself, and it does not ask us for our approval. Its strong and autark enough not to need to.

There never was a realistic chance to bring the Ukraine into the EU or NATO. I say since many years that back in the past and now in the present, the starting of such an association process would inevitably bring the Russian into attack mode, they would and they will start a war before this process could ever be completed. That the Ukraine becomnes a NAOT member was unacceptable for them already back then, for reasons of strategy, identity, cult and culture, and history. Its like Russian missiles on Cuba - the US would never have accepted that. You want Russia to invade the Ukraine in full, now or back then? Starting to bring it into NATO is the 100% fail safe method to get what you want.

@ blackswan40

An interesting approach in how the development would proceed.

I don't think he will touch NATO member.

After he has invaded Ukraine I'm pretty sure he will aim at Gotland-Controlling this island and you control the Baltic sea. Finland will then be next.

Could also be the other way around-Finland 2nd then Gotland.

Or he is just interested in Ukraine and nothing more.

Markus

Even ruthless Russia's military capacities are not unlimited, even if facing the Europeans only, without the US. ;) Lets not make them bigger than they are. They are big, but not THAT big. They can do what they now threaten to do.



To attack North and Middle and South Europe itself, that then again is another ball game, even with NATO now being the weakest ever. The huge Sowjet tank armies like in the cold war, are a thing of the past now, like huge numbers on Western sides are. What they can and would do is hybrid and cyber warfare instead. to throw Europeans off their feet and keep them busy with things in their own households. That way, they cnanot get into Russia'S way where Russia really aims at: the three small Baltic states, the Black Sea region, Balkans in parts, maybe, Ukraine.



I doubt that even in the cold war the Sovjets ever seriously planned to conquer central and Western Europe.

The Ukraine in NATO? No way, it is a violent corrupt system of government thanks to the people running it. Not only that right now The Ukraine can’t control what happens within its own borders it has no territorial integrity. If it were allowed to join NATO the situation would quickly escalate as NATO be then be obligated to defend that crap hole militarily and quickly dragged into a protracted guerrilla/civil war. Screw that.

83 years later: SOP nazi maneuver #1: the False Flag justification for invasion
 

What interest me is that American news souces are intimating a Russian 'false flag' attack to justify the invasion of Ukraine as justifiable https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59998988 This is right out of the Nazi playbook in 1939's Operation Himmler https://coffeeordie.com/operation-himmler/ https://coffeeordie.com/wp-content/u...mmlerCover.jpg Nuthin new here; Putin just wants his Iron Curtain 'baby blanket' back no IMHO 'bout it:hmmm: Indeed; American cleanup of Europeaan WWI issues incl. 'Nam, China, Afghanistan, which all arise out of the collapsed Russian, British, and French 19th century empires, needs to be avoided. Russia is currently threatening to place retaliatory military assets in Venzuela ie: the Cuban missle crisis all over again. Were I the President, step one following the invasion of Ukraine would be to pull my ambassador from Moscow, declare all Russian diplomats non-grata and go to DEF-CON 2 ie: sabre-rattling on a grand scale; the only lingo Moscow comprehends... :ping::ping::ping:

Within the next week we will know, if Russia will invade or not.

Markus

Fat lot of use that would be.

best get some Polish Brickies on job :D

Meanwhile, the US is keeping a carrier group in the Ionian Sea, south of Istanbul, for- uhh- reasons. :03:

The Ionian Sea is 900-1100 nautical miles from the Donbass region. Quote: "No one concerned or concerning, friend or otherwise, will see anything in the Ionian."

https://blog.usni.org/posts/2021/12/...the-ionian-sea

Quote: "Make sure you have the right heat for the right appetite."

I am not convinced. But then, it is no US business anyway, at least it shouldn't be. Europe is called for deeds, not the US.

That's simply "cutlass-rattling" as opposed to "sabre-rattling":doh::oops::dead:...one thing though: both Ol' Boney and Adoph screwed their respective pooches by engaging in winter warfare in Russia:hmmm: I marvel that Vladimir P. thinks mid-January will be good for him in UkraIne...:hmmm:

It's all Greek to me too:O:!??

Aircraft carriers can move. They are good at that. :Kaleun_Wink:
The aircraft the aircraft carriers carry can also move. Really fast. :O:

Everybody is awaiting an invasion of Ukraine, Even myself expect this to happen very soon.

But what if the troops and material near the Ukrainian border is nothing but a very strong signal to the West(NATO and EU) Stay out of Ukraine or we will invade the country ?

Markus

...for which China is developing the hypersonic anti-carrier missile with it's own dummy practice carrier somewhere in the middle of its desert... https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/.../v0/800x-1.jpg

Its pilots also can quickly bring boots on the the ground, once they got shot down. :O:

I am not the first pointing out that Russia probably has the strongest and deepest-layered aerial missile and interceptor defence in the world. Russian equipment in the Middle East operated by Arab crews, not trained Russians, should not be the standard by which to judge the systems technical efficiency. And I remind that Russia claism since years that its new radars have seriously degraded the stealth fighters efficiency to hide. Who wants to find out if that is true? I am not eager.

Much of the Ukraine, and beyond, is practically a Russian air and missile defence zone. Russian missiles of many kinds also reach far into Europe, last but not least from Kaliningrad.

This is not Libya, or the Iraq, or Afghanistan. Nor is it the technically disadvantaged Sovjet Union.

Most of NATO's aerial anti-tank-campaign in Yugoslavia fell for dummies, btw. Regarding reducing the combat readiness and efficiency of the Yugoslavian ground forces, it was a huge failure, the attacked Yugoslavian brigades retreated later practically fully integrated and in coordinated fashion, with small losses suffered, and and combat-ready. It was the bombing of civilian and industrial infrastructure that forced Yugoslavia to give up, not the damage done to its armed forces.

And still, this is an issue the Europeans must come to terms with. Its no American issue. And if Europe proves to be incapable to handle it, it only proves what everybody already knows anyway: that it is strong in words and weak in powers. Last but not least thanks to Germany, Europe has brought itself into such a hopeless dilemma that practically no good options are left. And that accusation goes beyond just Norstream 2.

We should have stuck with oil as long as needed, and never should have given up nuclear. Now we hope to have - Russian - gas as an interims solution after having scared away all investors. And we push for ever stronger climate goals and expensive costs while our private households and energy-intensive industries are facing threatening energy and gas prices. Vollpfosten. :doh: If Germany talks of sanctions, it is completely uncredible. Russia would retaliate with cutting gas. Germany would survive that, but the economic and private costs would be very high.

Sky;
The USSR had the strongest and deepest-layered aerial missile and interceptor defense in the world. Maybe, it depends on how you score those categories.

Modern Russia has TV commercials and propaganda. :yep: And, hyper turbo super cavitating doomsday torpedos and internet trolls.

How do you think the rest of the world views invading another county? What if they only want to create a buffer zone? By invading ANOTHER freaking country?? Where does that end??
:k_confused:

Here's a thought- when was the last time you had a yearning to visit Moscow? :haha:

If Vlad thinks the rest of the world is good at pretending they don't really want to invade, maybe someone should check his water supply. :up: