*headscratch*

You wrote a riddle i can not solve.
Say again please? I didn't understand a word.

HundertzehnGustav beat me by some minutes on the story of Müller.

August, you rethorically asked who he is talking for when Gustav mentions "society". The question is rather whom the church is speaking for, considering the far-reaching special rights and special status it demands, considering formal Catholics are no majority but a minority over here (by a wide margin), and considering the fact that the majority of these followers are in open turnaway and disloyalty towards the church. The question also is why these demands for being given special rights and special status should be justified - both when considering the massive abuse of these powers, and when ignoring it and just considering the conclusion that due to it being the church it shall be seen as something "special" and "privileged". What for...?

Formally, the majority of Germans (and Europeans) is not Catholic. And in Germany and other countries, the majority of these Catholics meet the church with confrontation, desinterest.

I do not like the Protestant church one bit better. It is different, but not better. And in some regards it even is worse and far more underhanded.

So whom does the church, no matter which one, represent in society? Not as many as Gustav speaks for, this much I can promise you.

What i find funny, is... as we are neighbors on a national Level, the same stuff happens here too.
but since we are merely a pixel on the map, it happens on a lesser scale.

Zooming out, and looking all over Europe, i find it good that people turn away from the churches, and seek wisdom and knowledge elsewhere than in Religion only.

reminds me...
On saturday i had an elderly man from "the Whitnesses" at my door.
He rang the bell around the time my GF was sposed to come by.

I didnt wear anything but a towel when i opened.
GF showed up seconds later, saw both of us standing there, and erupted in laughter.

As in Jehovah's?
:har:

You got those there also??

yes!

I once had a set of Women (one young, one elder, bibles at hand and all) at the door . they greeted me with "We bring you the light".

I turned and called inside, (even though there was nobody there)
"Honey, the Lady from the electricity company is here!"

... then shut the door on her noses still standing outside.
They drop by regularly, looking for prey. love them.

Well as you know Sky although I was raised as such (by my German mother) I am no Catholic (much to her chagrin) nor do I belong to any other organized religion but just for the record the only one that speaks for me or mine (which includes a fair number of Germans) is one who has been authorized by us to do so.

Understand that I have no problem with his message, if what you and he say about the Catholic Church is true then maybe your country would indeed be better off if you just outlawed them altogether.

I just was commenting on his implication that he speaks for the rest of society. Is his real name like Angela Merkel or something? :hmm2:

do i look like a frikking german?:har:

Outlawing churches may be a bit harsh.
removing their extras in the sense of cash and rules, mechanisms, privileges is a more reasonable step i think.

I imagine you Luxembourgers look a lot like Germans, a third of your country are German by blood no?

I guess that depends on what you mean by that and if how far it would go. Remember Germany did that to another religion not too long ago and at the time it was also considered "a reasonable step". Beware Friend.

I have a "No Jahovah's!" sign on my front door.
Now I don't really care what you believe.
But what I believe is I don't want ANYONE at my front door with anything to sell.
Let alone a belief system in anything.
I'd prefer an Amway dude knock on my door.
:haha:

Is it really that often you folks get bothered over there? Over here no holy roller has knocked on my door in at least a decade and that's in urban, suburban and rural locations in three different states. I'm not claiming that's representative but I haven't been hiding from them either.

They just aren't very numerous over here apparently, at least in New England.

I would apply that to all any any religion. Bringing them down to the abilty and rsponsability of the local or national soccer club.

REMOVE their privileges.
SEPARATE all churches from state-run instututions. The law is thelaw, and counts for muslims and jews, christians of all kinds, and all other religious people too.
the LAW is above them all, THE LAW being blind to religion. THE LAW ruling over people of all kinds, respecting humaity of any source and protecting the weak from abuse.
That is my wish.

Nor INCREASE other group's Privileges.
You could say:
Put Humanity and law over Religious concerns and religious law.

I think some 75 years back, there was a Political party round my neck of the woods that severely and clearly abused their position to kick anything aside that stood in their path.
Globally speaking, these Thugs BOUGHT the Church back then. and the Church played the game for a while.

Speaking for myself, i do not care for politics much. It confuses me more than it helps me in my daily life.

still:
Put Humanity and law over Religious concerns and religious law.

I think with "a spoonfull of Humanity above all" one can not do much wrong.
Correctly Voted laws should be the State's tools for ruling the masses.
In that Context, Religion is up to the individual, and should have no means of influencing the state's decisions.
But should also abide by the state's rules, suffer detective work and punishment where found guilty.

I understand the worries.
But today's Goal is not to start a war - neither in belgium france nor germany. not like back then, everything had to give way to what was written in Mein Kampf.
We realy have other problems to deal with at the moment.

I believe in death.
Nothing else (before OR after) seems to be as safe on my path as death.
and since death is such a vague thing to experience, you could say i am a non believer altogether.:D


Amway?
http://www.amway.com/
These guys?
what would they do knocking on people's doors?
they sell all kinds of stuff. from proteines to T-shirts to "a way to experience excellence"

I usually get one or two a year, either Jehovah's Witnesses or Southern Baptists. I'm Lutheran, but I just say that I'm Catholic and they run for their car as fast as they can. No big deal.

I'm in Ohio.
And YES! They will bang your door several times a month if you don't go radical on them!

I once answered the door naked, knowing it was them!
They came back the next day.
My crazy (WAY crazier then me) cousin was here then.
He started telling them about Satan and how he worshipped him.
They left and came back the next day!
The sign was up by then and have passed by every since.
:har:

Not being in the U.S. I'd hope you are safe.
:D

Not knowing who I may offend here?
I'll let it go for now.
:03: