Even changing your aspect ratio to the target can change your results. It makes a big difference how much of the target's beam is facing your radar. When it is broadside you can hold the contact until the cows come home, but when it's bow on you keep losing it. Frustrating, but real!

Funny they forgot about land.

JCC

So, waves block radar. Aspect ratio affects radar.

Land is invisible to radar.
:06:

Alrighty then. Hopefully I'll get a chance to mess with this over the weekend.

[The range that is measured is put into the buffer used by the stadimeter, so to correctly measure the range, you will need to switch to the periscope or TDC and from the right hand slide out, choose the stadimeter before measuring the range.]

Are you saying that we have two choices to have range input? One is to pull out the attack dials on the upper right and open the range dial? Alternatively, open the TDC on the left and activate the PK? What is the point of periscope view? And do you aim the periscope at something? Do we activate the TDC input before we take our first range measurement? How do we measure time between radar readings? The stopwatch? If we measure time, we have a lot of steps to follow, plus we are jumping around from screen to screen.(Activate TDC, measure range on the A scope, read the bearing, start the timer/stopwatch, plot the bearing and range, Second range reading: repeat to get a second range and bearing, check the timer/stopwatch, plot the range and speed to calculate speed. I am starting to get tired thinking about it.)

Beside the stopwatch, how can we measure time accurately? What screen do we use?

If I am beginning to see the light, this process will take a long time. Besides all of the time it will take to find contacts with map contacts off, plotting an attack will take a really long time. The game will be slowed down, and it will not be too easy to sink a lot of tonnage as quick as before. This mod may be for the very hardcore simmers. I may have to decide if that is how I want to play the campaigns, etc.

That sounds very clever. :DL

The PK has nothing to do with it, so don't worry about that for using the radar.

Right, the way the radar works, it sort of hijacks a value used by the game in the periscope input dials (the range/AoB and Speed dials). By default it will start on AoB, so if you don't change the periscope to stadimeter mode, then measure a range of say 3,000 yards what you've done is loaded the AoB input with an AoB of 3000. Obviously you can't send the AoB and have it changed the range, so you need to change to the stadimeter before you measure the range if you want to be able to send it to the TDC. Of course you can just get a quick range with any selection, but you won't be able to send it to the TDC and you'll have to select stadimeter and then measure it again, then send.

There's no other way to send the range other than using the stadimeter. In the previous versions you had to measure the range then input it by dragging the stadimeter round to what you guestimated was the right range and even then you couldn't go up very far. Now it gets loaded into the stadimeter for you and it can go up to 40,000 yards, whereas before it was limited to 8,000 yards or so and not at all an accurate way to enter range, which is a bit of a bad point for highly accurate radar. There is no other way that i know of to get the range from the radar to the TDC as there are no commands to do it. The send range command is a 2D screen command and only appears to work in the periscope or TBT screen. If anyone knows a workaround for this, then I'm all ears.

The other advantage is that you can come to radar depth (or use the ST radar in TMO) and takle a range note what range it points to, then use the split prism stadimeter to measure a point of your choice, then after that's been done drag the range indicator to the point indicated by the radar and that will calibrate the stadimeter perfectly for that target's mast height.

Aim the periscope at the target you are sending the range of, as it will send the bearing at the same time,. If you can't see the target, get the bearing of the target by radar and then point the scope at that bearing and send the range of the target.
Just make sure the stadimeter is selected in the periscope (or TBT) view. No need to do anything else.

Oh come on, you know how to measure time :O:. Either use the in game stopwatch or use the actual game time, which is also displayed on the TDC. You can take readings at whole minute intervals and keep an eye on the clock on the TDC to remind you when you need to take a new reading.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'activate the TDC'. Use optical bearings from the periscoipe or TBT as it's much faster and easier than trying to get the bearing from the radar and range from the radar. Worst possible combo is bearing from the radar and range from the stadimeter :DL. It's not really a lot of work to take a range measurement. If you don't like plotting, then you can send each reading to the TDC and use the 'calculate course and speed' button and have the (particularly bad at maths) XO do it for you. He seems to be able to get a different answer with the same number each time you ask him, but it's accurate to within a knot and a degree based on your measurements. Plotting it out gives you a better overview of what's happening though and your situational awareness will be much higher.

If you find plotting too slow, you can change to the map and then immediately pause the game. You can still use the map tools with the game paused. If you don't like the map tool, then you can use paper or mobo.

Do you mean accurate or easily? The stopwatch is accurate to the nearest second so you don't need greater precision. Don't lawyers work to the nearest 15 minutes? :-) If you want that authentic WWII tick tock sound, you an use a real stopwatch, but then you are limitted to real time with no time compression and you won't be able to pause the game.

I asked about time, because your 3D TDC has a device to calculate time (I will call it a clock) which you can use for time, so I was wondering if that is what your wanted us to use. If not, why include it? Historical accuracy? In response to your jest re using the stopwatch to calculate speed, I was trying to figure out why you included a clock on the 3D TDC.

Now for the stadimet4er, you say nothing about double clicking the stadimeter button to send range. I assume that double clicking the button to send range is not required when your mod is used to calculate range?

The alternative range input tool is the TBT? (Do you mean it is the ships' dials on the left screen?) I understand bearing via the periscope and range via the stadimeter based upon your answers to my recent post. Finally. But how did the ships' dials sneak into the equation re inputting range? It seems odd to use it as an alternative to the stadimeter. Those dials do not have a relation to a target's speed, although they do have a relationship to a target's bearing.

What is the key or entry on the screen to request target bearing and speed?


I think this takes care of my questions re the bearing and range and plotting. I really do not have an idea how the rest of the 3D TDC fits into the picture yet, but first I need to get proficient at bearing, range and plotting, and attack a couple of ships with map contacts off before I am ready to concentrate on those.

Please note that as the mod creator many of the "how to do things" is second nature to you now. You are perfecting an attack scheme that at variance with what many of us are used to in terms of finding bearing and range, so some of sure footed "donkeys" want to make sure we understand all of the steps so we do not fall off the new path and into canyon below.

Supplement added at 7:23 a.m.: I tried tracking. My first and second plot seemed good (map contacts off so I will never know). I was tracking the lead ship in a task force. My third plot did not seem accurate. I may have measured range from to far behind the my boat's present position. Plus, my speed between the 1st and 2nd plots was 31.6 kts. and my speed between my 2nd and 3rd plots was 17.1 kts. Obviously, I made an error. To correct this, I iintend tol write the bearing and range on a piece of paper for the first plot, and do the same plus add the time differential for subsequent plots. I can calculate speed when I am done, and hopefully the speed will be roughly the same. I have to train myself to commit the range and speed to memory before I plot on the Nav. Map, as I find myself rechecking those items. Because the view on the A scope changes when I switch from screen to screen, I have to redo the A scope range and bearing readings which adds a potential screw up to the equation, particularly where keeping accurate time is important to speed calculatlions.

Originally the Time on the TDC was connected to the stopwatch, but there's two problems with the stopwatch. One is it only goes up to 30 minutes then resets to zero :damn:. The second is when you fire a torpedo, the time is not available and replaced by the elapsed torpedo run time. So, I thought it was more useful to have the time going round in full hours, instead of 30 minute sections.

TBT entry = same as for the periscope using the stadimeter.

The request target course and speed is on the Target Speed entry dial on the TBT or periscope. It's the little stopwatch icon. You need to send two ranges and bearing a few minutes apart and from that it will calculate the course and speed.

If you're new to it and don't feel confident in your tracking, then track with map contacts on just to give some feedback that you are doing things correctly.

How do you mean that the view on the 'A' Scope changes when you switch view? You mean it starts to sweep off on its own? Get round that by turning it off, as that will 'freeze' it in place.

I think what he means is that when you switch out of the Radar screen to the TBT/Periscope screen, the range on the A-Scope sets back to zero.

I can't remember if this happens if you turn off the radar before leaving or not, but it's not a big deal. Just wind the range back out to where the spike is and you are good to go.

JCC

I just checked and it doesn't reset to zero when you switch.

part way there
 

2 hours later. Battle fatique has taken its toll. I call this learning on the job.

Partial success: I tracked a merchant with no map contacts enabeled. I actually plotted its course pretty accurately considering it was dark. I took several readings and it was ahead of my boat pulling away at 14 or 15 kts. ( I never knew what the little timer was on the stadimeter. I did not know it was a timer!) I am still having problems getting a methodical plan down for starting and stopping the stopwatch. Using the timer on the stadimeter (which only computes speed and course if you take at least two readings), there was a one kt. difference between my plot and the TDC, which thrilled me to no end. However, I could not get ahead of the target without it firing at me, so I let the deck crew do its thing when the boats were on parallel tracks, and they sunk it in about 15 minutes, after a gunbattle. I consider it a victory that I was able to locate the target without map contacts in the dead of night at an initial range of over 8,000 yds.

Since the PK is off, the range readings are static. Is that correct? If it is, once I get ahead of the target and have plotted it course as it approached my position, I assume I use the normal attack routines once the target comes into view.

After sinking the merchant, I had a lot of radar contacts. I hope someone implements the idea you had about preserving radar images of aircraft. It is a pain in the butt when you have no idea if a radar contact is on a course that will not intersect your boat, as you are diving the boat on the assumption that you will avoid one or more aircraft. That is the safe thing to do because you have no idea of an aircraft's heading when map contacts are not enabled.

I will try to leave contacts on while I familiarize myself with this mod. I need to find a target in the daytime as well, as that will make it easier.

Using this mod with map contacts off will slow the rate of play. Attacks take a long time to plot. Bobbing up and down to avoid aircraft is time consuming, but you can avoid the effort if you are a gambler and choose to stay on the surface and risk surviving an air attack. Once the target's course is mapped, the rest of the game is unchanged insofar as I can imagine at this point.

Hmm..

I'll see if I can get some screenies.

JCC

still having problems; Here is what I have been doing...
 

Note: This post has been superceded as a result of Nisgeis comments.

This friggin' mod will be the death of me. :hmmm:

Here is what I have been doing, and it may be incorrect, so let me know. Unless I am way off, you will see why I find this mod complex.

First range and bearing:
(1) Open the stadimeter (upper left side of the computer screen) to the range button;
(2) Locate and get a fix on the target on the PPI radar screen.
(3) Switch the view to the A-scope screen, and get range and bearing from the A-scope;
(4) Switch to a periscope view and swivel the periscope to the bearing determined by the A-scope;
(5) Click the range button on the stadimeter to send the range (and bearing?) to the TDC? (5a?) Or, do I need to double click it to enter the range on the TBT (which I believe is the dials with the two ships displayed which is located on the screen on the upper left.) I assume I double click the range button;
(6) PK is off throughout;
(7) I do not use the stopwatch in this step (or do I?); and
(8) Plot the range and bearing. I have been putting the computer on pause to do this. I am worried that if I do not pause the computer, the range and bearing plot with be skewed as a result of lapse of time.

Second range and bearing:
(9) Start the stopwatch as soon as the first plot is mapped and the game resumed.
(10) Same procedure as the first (steps 3-5 & 8);
(11) Pause the game after entering the second range into the stadimeter; and
(12) Read the time elapsed on the stopwatch, and use it for the first speed calculation based upon the distance between the first and second plotted points. Restart the game.
(13) Open the stadimeter to the speed dial and click the clock icon so the radarman will give you and estimate of course and speed of the target. If I have followed procedures, manual speed and speed calculated by the TDC should be about the same.

This step confuses me as I have not been able to calculate speed accurately. Working with the stopwatch is a pain.

Thrid range and bearing;
(14) Repeat steps 9-13;
(15) Since this is the third set of range and bearing entries input to the TDC, I double click the timer button on the stadimater (with the speed dial open) to call up the calculation of target speed and course;
(16) Compare course and speed manually calculated for the second - third range and bearing plots to the course and speed generated by the TDC for the first and second plots;
(17) If they are close or equal, plot the target's course, adjust speed on the stadimeter speed dial as necessary; and
(18) Proceed with an attack if within striking distance;

So far it hasn't worked. Let me know if I am on the right track please. (pun intended.) I am having trouble calculating distance between plots and keep track of the time on each plot. When do I start the stopwatch on a plot and when do I stop it?

Follow up to previous post
 

I finally found a single merchant. It was night however. I was able to make two plots, but the timer on the stadimeter did not calculate the course and speed, so I must have made a mistake along the way. Also my third plot did not look right as it was either wrong or the target made a huge course change. What will work for me is a step by step explanation with a screenshot tutorial. If everyone else is getting this, then I have a major problem.

I've re-ordered your post and added comments.

You're almost there!

If it didn't calculate course and speed it should have given you an error in the message window, something like not enough time between measurements or you have to send two measurements to get a speed or something like that. Either you didn't wait long enough between sending the range and bearing to the TDC, or you didn't send two readings.

Plot with map contact on until you get used to it, then you'll be able to see what is wrong and correct it. If the course you plotted looked like a dog's hind leg, then it might not have been your third plot that was wrong. It could have been the second, or even the first plot.

note for Nisgeis
 

I just corrected my post that your responded to. I did it before I saw yours. But, your corrections and explanations will work. I will look at them now, and really check them out tomorrow.

Nisgeis
 

I will enter a new post tomorrow, and list all the steps taking into account your corrections and modifications. I can see how it all fits, although my last speed calculation for a merchant per the radarman had a course much different than I calculated, and the target per the radarman was moving much faster (31 kts.!) than I thought possible. So I still haven't got it down yet.

However, from your last post I have learned some important information that I can include in the action list for plotting with map contact disabled. Please let me know if anything below is inaccurate. I will incorporate your comments in a revised action list. It will prove useful to me, and it may prove useful for the tutorial that John Channing is preparing if the steps are accurate and in correct order. If not, he might want to use the information that is correct and disregard the rest. The only questions I have pertain to the Fifth item below.

Here is what I think I have learned from your post.

First, use PPI to locate the target, and then use the A scope for fine tuning the first bearing and range. However, on the subsequent bearings and ranges, you can probably go directly to the A scope, without going to the PPI first.

Second, one need not double click range or speed to input to the TDC. A single click will suffice. This is different from the "double clicking" used in other situations.

Third, start the stopwatch promptly after obtaining your first bearing and range. You do not stop it until you have finished plotting, but one should record the total time elapsed after each plot to assist in calculating interim determinations of target speed.

Fourth, one will probably need to record bearings and ranges, as well as the time elapsed between plots, as he or she will need to refer to them for speed calculations. Plus, after leaving the A-scope view, I usually forget the range or bearing before I swivel the periscope.

Fifth, one may obtain a target's bearings from (1) the bearing data on the sub's ceiling near the A-scope, (2) the periscope if the target is within range, or (3) the TBT if the target is in range. I will check out the TBT tomorrow, but as I recall, it also provides access to the stadimeter. If so, either a TBT or periscope view can be used to calculate bearing if the target is within range. I assume you must lock on the target to input bearing. Regardless, one may still use either the periscope's or TBT's access the stadimeter to input range, access the speed dial, and access the watch icon on the stadimeter thus enabling the radarman to announce the target's course and speed per the TDC once the 2nd and subsequent plots have been determined. Conversely, if one cannot see the target through either the periscope of the TBT, I assume there is nothing gained by aiming either the the periscope or the TBT at the bearing designated by the A scope, so why do it? It would be a waste of energy and useless exercise, as the bearing data is already in the TDC per the A scope solution. I assume this is correct.

My action list is quite lengthy. It confirms that this is a highly technical mod. The upside is that it allows one to play with map contacts disabled. The downside is that it will take practice to perfect for many captains who, like me, are not seasoned veterans as to some of the more highly technical aspects of the sim. Although attacking targets with map contacts disabled is a slow and arduous process, some may relish it precisely because of the technical challenge and thrill of hunting with map contacts disabled. Others will find it too technically challenging and may not enjoy the slower pace it brings to the sim. One misstep and you can pretty much write off a torpedo attack. Also, calculation of Aob has to be a challenge with map contacts disabled, unless you know the target's course and set up for a 90 degree broadside. I haven't thought about whether the Easy Aob mod is useful when map contacts are off. That may be an issue worthy of consideration and discussion down the road.

I assume that playing with map contacts disabled is more realistic than with map contacts enabled, but I do not know for sure, for whatever that is worth.