It's brilliant because it's true. And since I'm brilliant as well, I know just how to square that circle. Hear me out.

We've got The Company paying the bills during development. Then we've got the Dev Team who are directly responsible for the end product. Complicating things are that ours is a niche market without the millions of projected sales, so the Company, at some point, has to push the Dev Team to get something out there already or it's going to be red ink all over the place.

Introducing Kaleun Misha's new variable, the Modders.

It has already been established over the years throughout the various SH iterations that there is this horde of Modders with entirely too much time on their hands, a good idea of what the Dev Team wants to accomplish and good communications between the two.

In the past, that has led to the Company pushing the product out of the door before it was even halfway finished, much to the dismay of the Dev Team, leaving the Modders to finish the job based on what communications they are privy to with the Dev Team.

They do a damn good job, and they have done so through all of SH's iterations, on their own time for absolutely no pay other than the satisfaction of seeing their anticipated sim achieve the true potential that the Dev Team was aiming for from the beginning.

But it's been based on "I heard from so and so with the Dev Team that the way these parameters works is that they...", which is all random even though it leads to spectacular results.

Kick out the random bit, Ubi. Charge your Dev Team with a vision, a budget and a preferred release date and then, on TOP of that feel free to enlist as many trusted modders to help out. Since they're usually doing their job post-production for absolutely free, it should hurt payroll that much to throw some goodies their way just to show your appreciation. The Modders don't do it for money, they do it because they love, love, love the "niche". Obviously, the standard non-disclosure agreements have to be drawn up, but that's boilerplate. Have the lazy, underworked gits in legal do that

See, Ubi, what you have now is an incredibly talented Dev Team with a vision, aided 24/7 by Modders more than happy to be part of the process for next to nothing, a group so closely in tune with the original Dev Team that they could be twins, and they'll be more than happy to take over the tweaking, busy-work, testing etc. for not much more than a mention in the credits.

We've seen it before when modded map tools became standard in later patches.

Because, you see, we Modders (and I'm not much of one but I can handle tedious simple work and unload that from those working on more important details) are going to do it anyway when you release a half-finished product, so why not get us included before that happens. Let US deal with the "mission creep" for free while your dev team does the meat and bones. It's not like it's going to cost you anything since the U-boat sim community ISN'T one of those who expect a brand new release every six months, we just want it done RIGHT.

It's still your IP, an drawing up non-disclosure forms to keep any "rebel" modders from going off the plantation should take Ubi's legal team all of ten minutes.

And when, at the end, we have the ultimate u-boat simulator with all theatres of operations, more options and tweaks than you can shake a cat at, you, Ubi, will be raking in all of the glory for a very small investment.

Use that approach in other sims and you might soon have cornered the market completely.

It's like open source, only with controls and the parent company still making money off of their initial investment.

What's not to like? Particularly that your reputation for "serious" games will no longer be along the lines of "push out the door unfinished" and you will STILL be raking in the profits.

Think about it, Ubi.

Wow, Misha, you are brilliant! :rock:

Of course it'll never happen, because the Powers-That-Be at UBI have shown an inability to do anything that makes sense. But we can dream, and I think your dream is a good one. :sunny:

Thanks, Sailor Steve, and I really think it could happen.

It's not rocket science. Ubi gets their product to market faster and in a complete version, giving them rave reviews, they don't give up an inch of their intellectual property, and their Dev Team, always on the clock, gets immense support from the Mod "auxiliaries" at no cost to Ubi.

And, on top of that, as a result of close work between the Dev Team and the Mod Squad, Ubi gets to release a sub sim that not only is flawless right out of the box, it's got built in variants to make the game challenging for years.

I mean. Obviously Ubi still has an interest in the franchise or they'd have ditched it after SH3 With this, and with a bit of legal text sent to participants in the Ultimate Silent Hunter Project, they'd have resources they could pull on that would make Bill Gates green with envy. I speak only for myself and the very minor mods I've contributed with, I'm no TDW, Trevally, Stormy, Stoianm, Gap etc, but I'd be doing it anyway. Offer to put my name in the credit roll would make me positively ecstatic, and that doesn't hurt Ubi's bottom line in the least.

Because we do it because we love it. We and the Dev Team can create a Silent Hunter that covers everything, from casual "sink some ships" to "full immersion U-boat war" and everything in between. We just need to be let in on the trade secrets (with a vicious non-disclosure agreement attached, obviously) and since I, speaking for myself again, am not in it to make money, I just want the most awesome WWII U-boat sim in the history of mankind, I'd be positively thrilled to just see my username scroll by quickly in the credits.

It can be done, Ubi. Now DO it!

Community subsim
 

Just reading your last re modders and open source.....

and maybe I am being a trifle niaive.....

but would it be possible to make an open source **6 (subsim), there

seem to be enough capable modders out there, that would certainly

put a bee in ubi's bonnet, if the community decided to make their own

subsim. Especially if UBI have decided there isn't going to be a *6.

My main complaint re SH6 is there is no 'adversarial role', in the game.

I think there would be too many Cheifs and not enought Indians...if you opened it up to every modder that wanted a shot. I would say hire less then 10 modders/simers to help developement. I thinking polling and what not could help for specific desires and realistic developement goals. The problem beyond the basics (Everything we had before, plus Wolfpacks of course ;))...is everyone has different views on what should be implemented...graphics vs gameplay vs realism vs expanding the demographic. Done right, it could include all of those...and not peg them against each other. Options are always good...but too many can make too huge of a game to run..... its always an interesting paradigm.

Did I mention wolfpacks? (tho historically too little too late with the code broken and radio direction finding...blah blah blah...I still want some semblance of them)

If this does happen..aka subsim modders in actual hands on developement...just stand by for the in fighting!! :rotfl2: Everybodys wishlist thread...hehe. (sorry for the SP...my spell checker is not working)


Forgot to add....compitition from another company would be nice...tho you have to respect UBI for actually making a game for a small market...even tho they try hard as hell to expand the demographic...much to the chagrin of the realism freaks like me!

Let me put my Ubi cap on for a minute.
Why pay modders when thay already do the job for free?

:hmmm:

.

Well pilgrim....I'll tell you why. Because this is a niche market....they NEED the support of the communtiy PRE devlopement to make sure that the game simulates.....Modders dont "sell" more copies of the game...in that...the game is priced high for so long...so for maximizing profit, its critical to release something that people will want to buy at full price. Mods come in time to make it better. Does that make sense? As far as paided verse not paided....I think its critical to pay a few vice not pay everyone becuase too many ways to skin the cat for developement will overwhelm and you need good plan and focus.....I just think that would be too hard with everyone trying to submit their MOD...and consequently people will get butt hurt when there MOD or inputs "dont make the finial version". So have 10 dudes take the wishes of Thousands and focus on implementing whats needed ..vice every nit picky thing...or over imput of the same thing.."cause I think I can MOD this better than that guy". I guess that is my point.

SH5 failed IMHO to listen to that niche market demands/wishes ...instead went for trendy new different feel to expand the demographic. You cant fail you base consumer and expect to succeed. You cant take things that were available in the past and not put them in and expect to suceed. Half of Simulation IMHO is learning History....something lost on "Games" these days.

Luckily they had a backup plan , that is awesome tools to make SH5 how we want it . Except for the GR2 which TDW is working on now .

A solution I see, is to create an account from ALL NAVAL SIM ENTHUSIASTS,rent a couple of programmers with a lead designer and start working on an accurate and high level Simulator.

Rent???
Do you know what you're talking about?
What about source of minimal (!) 2500 euros per man per month?
For 10 programmers it is 25.000 euros per month.

But some had similar, but cheaper idea of real sub simulator... and unfortunately no effects:
http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/

Is Danger from the Deep even in development any more? It's the Jet Thunder of subsims. IMO any indie subsim should be less ambitious and more like Silent Service than trying to be like SH.

I know I'm late to the topic and my opinion is most likely going to be ignored. But here is what I think we need to change.

WW2 was not fought below the waves but above them also, here at subsim you guys having the love and compassion for this game have added, changed and enhanced every aspect that you can. I'd like to see a choice given to the player, Do they play as a Submarine, or Surface ship. In my opinion the Submarine sim is a fantastic idea that for me gives me freedom to well....experience the war. For me the beauty of this game is the time period, but what I love more is the amount you guys here at Subsim, not UBI has done to make it better.

I get to sail the world in a battleship, Submarine and even a carrier that ok don't do much but move and turn.

If we see a new game, then UBI needs to understand what we expect from such a game, to many of us like me are new to the forums, we look at all these mods and wonder why UBI never has this much umph shall we say when developing their games.

I'm newish to the forums and with that comes an uncertainty. I like to know what this game can provide and so even if it takes a new game to show us just how much they can push the envelope then so be it. But I'd rather have them listen to Subsim members and try to incoorpirate what you guys know so that they gain more than they have out of previous games.

I too have dreamed of a WW2 navy sim game. Sounds like too high of hopes to me. Oh well. I do wish for a better SH with number 6.

There are some aspects of 5 I like but others I don't. Perhaps take the fun of SH4 with some good stuff from SH5 (depends what one defines good and if there is any) then you might have SH6

Don't want to squash any discussion, but the SH team has been dismantled and most, if not all of the devs have moved on to other companies. There will not be a Silent Hunter 6. There are also no submarine simulators in development, consideration or being discussed in any manner by any professional developers. If there is going to be a new sub sim released anytime in the forseeable future, it will have to come from the enthusiasts themselves.

It's dead. All these people that say "oh, well the community should do it, we can do it best, we can make a subsim that's hyper realistic, has all the features we want and none of the bugs"....welp, there was your chance. And you see how well that turned out.