Tried to quote but unfortunately something went wrong and only quoted certain words .

There is a bright future for the fleetboats Sub Sailor so don't get down in the dumps to far. It is probably true that UBI will go with the uboats and will simply throw the PTO a cookie with future addons like say a new icon on the screen or maybe a different hat or something but don't underestimate the modders we have for the PTO. NO SINGLE PERSON knows as much about the SH4 structure as Ducimus and the things that the RFB team is doing is incredible to say the least. I would also be afraid to even guess how much time Lurker has spent on this.

I bought that silly addon because I wanted to support the SH4 series and I knew the mods would be forced to move in that direction but I also anticipated the PTO to be taken care of by the wonderful modders here. I think everything will be OK and in the end, just like in real life, the US campaign against the Japs will be successful and the uboats will end up on the sea floor, just like it ought to be. And one day, maybe we can have a surrender mod and remind everybody exactly who came out on top and who went to see Davey Jones.:cool:

As long as I have fun playing with both Pacific and Atlantic Boats (well a bit more with the Atlantic actually) I am happy and I don't care if I need to surrender in the end. ;) :p :D

But seriously Ron you should try the TM Mod. It is really good and I am sure you will enjoy it :yep:

No problem at all Kpt. Some of that due to the time out issue you experience I suspect when getting your point across. If some of the posts seemingly look out of context it was not intentional and I did not know a timeout caused you headaches when attempting to getting a post up. As you recognized, fatique plays a part as well. Again, not intentional. If there is a part you wish to be revisited I will certainly will revisit.

Just to be clear I had no intention of locking the thread last night, and some here did take a step back :yep: As well, I can't speak for the other Moderator's here, but I am sure they feel the same way with regards to all of this, they want to see it end in a positive manner.

Read the below, I don't disagree.

Anyhow I have no doubt that this stuff will eventually work itself out, and thankfully with SH4 eventually folks will have the option of going with the PTO, ATO or both if they so choose.

Again, these are exciting times, here's to the future :up:


RDP

I would not say the add on was silly but everyone has the right to speak what they think about it. It did add more for the fleet boats but more importantly, the add on delivered a stable game. The past 12 months of tweaking this and that are now over. I can honestly say I have experienced no more than 5 CTD with SH4. Some of those CTD induced by me as a matter of fact. So, $10.00 for a stable game prevented me from searching and looking for better computer parts or entire computer. $10.00 saved me $1500.00. Not a bad return at all. To add, it introduced the entire hemisphere for the uboats and for the uboat fans to enjoy. Is that really such a bad thing? Your last paragraph is the crux of the matter, who is better than who, this boat is better then that boat. The 'us versus them' issue. No one needs to be reminded who is on the bottom and who is enjoying the sunshine. It is all in the history books. A world war that is over yet continues in a submersible simulation on this forum. Very odd indeed. We are looking to not just co-exist between theaters but be one community enjoying the interest and study of this branch of the service during that time. Just as I pointed out Bigboywooly's "us versus them" type loyalty I need to do so here. Gentlemen, it is a game turned into a simulation by some bright, talented people cleverly called modders. All of it gets tarnished when co-existence breaks down. I ask all to recognize both theaters exist, some have an undying love for one or the other or both. Sometimes that passion get the better of us. If the uboats do not interest you, no need to read the posts about it. Same for the fleets. Certainly, there is no need to have a commando raid because you are feeling out of sorts on that particular day. This is not the place to come and get a bad day off your chest. All I ask is members to be respectful and leave the playground antagonism on the playground.

And there I had to force myself not to sharply reply to the post you quoted. Nice summary, good post.

But I think this thread really wandered of it's rail. I still wonder, are there already some visions floating around the GWX team has where to lead the development? Can we expect most of the features from GWX2.1 beeing reproduced in the SHIV? Or is there a different scope alltogether? Any tinkering of ideas what to do with the new features SHIV offers over SHIII, or is this too early a time to ask for that, or at all given the private nature of GWX development? Some unbinding comments would be nice just to calm down the little exited child in us for this huge endeavor =)

We are poor little lambs
Who have lost our way.
Baa! Baa! Baa!
We are little black sheep
Who have gone astray.
Baa! Baa! Baa!

Gentlemen songsters off on a spree
Damned from here to eternity
God have mercy on such as we.
Baa! Baa! Baa!

Ok, everybody ready to sing it? All right!:up: Let's go.

<SH4 modders (whoever you are!)>
We are poor little lambs
Who have lost our way.

<Everybody!!!!>
Baa! Baa! Baa!

<Ducimus solo!>
We are little black sheep
Who have gone astray.

<Everybody!!!!>
Baa! Baa! Baa!

<KL and the Merry GWXers!!!>
Gentlemen songsters off on a spree
Damned from here to eternity

<All together now!!>
God have mercy on such as we.
Baa! Baa! Baa!

We are warriors with the same love. Let us not love it to death.

Nothing is set in stone as per your questions Bewolf. But there will be announcements as and when. :up:

I must return to my refrain. GW does business in a quality way. They do not recreate the wheel. I predict that we will be surprised by what they release, especially if we're looking for a port of SH3/GWX2. GW is better than that. For some reason this observation is divisive.

The second part of my refrain: GW is committed to releasing a finished product. We won't hear much about what they're up to before it is almost ready for release. It would be limiting their ability to research and produce new stuff for them to announce ahead of time what they will discover. In the process of building, easy stuff will manifest difficult side effects and become impossible. Things not dreamed of will be discovered that change the entire flavor of the project. Raising false hopes by premature chest beating destroys trust. GW will not do that. They are too committed to exceeding the expectations of their users.

Conclusions drawn from my second part include "divisive and abusive" things I have said in this thread. In order not to prematurely spill the beans and build false hopes based on the current state of their project, they will not be sharing goodies with outside modders at that time. The reasoning will be that it will start a discussion of "What is GW going to do" among the more open society of modders that are presently in SH4. This would create expectation of certain things players will expect from their release, raising the false hopes that would damage GW's reputation.

If they ask for outside help it will be in a black box manner so no false rumors can result. If you are an SH4 modder and are approached like that, I would suggest you give serious thought toward helping them. We have two choices in life: either we owe others or they owe us. Better that they owe us. Don't be the bad guy.

So Bewolf, I can't speak for GW. I know some of the people involved. I have been to the GW inner sanctum and had a long and fruitful conversation with Kapt Lehmann. I saw no monsters there, just a lot of hard work being done, even while we had our mostly recreational conversation, there were constant interruptions from team members consulting about one thing or another. No monsters. A consistent workmanlike, well organized factory feel built around the personality of Kapt Lehmann. He said himself above that tinkering with the underlying organizational zietgeist would destroy GW. I concur. They have much to lose by adopting the methods of SH4 modders.

I'm not going into the incompatibility stuff that people thought was so hateful before, but I will repeat my best analogy: diesel fuel and fertilizer. They're both very beneficial, but when they are mixed you get a boom! Better to let the fertilizer grow food and the diesel fuel power the trucks to take that food to the market.

So my position that mixing the SH4 modders and GW group into one big happy family being impossible is not some hateful comment as some have characterized it. There is a good reason GW is the way it is and there is a good reason the SH4 modding community is the way it is. Let them work separately and cooperate when they can. And be prepared for wonderful things.

I think I've said all this before!

I think it's way too early to say what GWX will be like in SH4... give 'em time. They do this for us, the submarine nuts :up:

Hell, they just finished GWX 2.1! I love their work!

I'm starting to feel that if some people don't get their head out of their *** they might scrap it altogether :huh:

I don't see any reason why GWX cannot mod SH4 to their heart's content. They are talented and dedicated craftsmen (and women, sorry Pen :)) A GWX SH4 version will not negate any of the existing excellent SH4 mods, it just gives a SUBSIM member another cool option to enhance his playing experience. If one mod proves more popular than another, it does not diminish the less popular mod one bit.

The concept that one modder or mod team "owns" a particular game is nuts. I respect all modders who create interesting stuff. Let's work together and cooperate, and we all gain.

Neal
Subsim

SH4 with GWX = fun. SH4 with TMO or RFB = fun, SH4 with RSRD = fun

Just different flavors in different areas. Lots of great modders doing what they feel is best - end result - community wins. Everyone has their own thing, whether its structured and intelligence controlled development - or not.

It doesn't matter how these things come about other than saying thanks to the folks that provide em.

So all of ya hush and load your games and go back to havin some fun!

Precisely http://www.psionguild.org/forums/ima...s/thumbsup.gif

Now if only just..... http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9425/praydl5rp5.gif

The fun
 

The fun will be when the mods are released. Can we avoid a MultiSH4 setup? Can we find a way to coordinate the creations of different groups so that they will be able to coexist in the same SH4 installation?

That could be a daunting challenge. Because of the design of the game itself and its unfortunate incomplete separation of U-Boat and Fleet Boat parameters, it may end up being impossible to enjoy all the benefits of whatever GW comes up with and whatever the Fleet Boaters build.

This will not be a reflection on any modders, but a reflection of bad choices in game design, forcing a choice between U-Boat or Fleet Boat emphasis. For instance, all radio messages currently come from COMSUBPAC, even if you are in a U-Boat. I'm not saying Lockwood is a bad guy, but that is just plain inappropriate. Making the change to BdU results in Fleet Boats receiving their orders from Admiral Donitz! How many more snafus like that wait to be found? Can we make up a startup script that asks if you are going to play as U-Boat or Fleet Boat and then JSGMEs in the appropriate goodies, including loading screen? If not, can installation programs be built that automate a dual Fleet Boat/U-Boat installation of SH4, including patching to current levels?

We can leave all that for later. Now, let's just sit back on this beach with an appropriate adult beverage and see what the UBers and FBers come up with! DJFL, rustle up some of those Caribbean drinks. Here you go Onkel Neal! Where the hell is that reggae band?