SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - [REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project

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- - [REL] FOTRS Ultimate Project (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=226270)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7 (Post 2429919)

Just my two cents on arming the merchants in the game. I would say yes also to keeping the merchants armed. just wondering if there is a way to make their shooting a little less accurate. I've read books upon books about the US Submarines in the Pacific and have never heard about one submarine being sunk by enemy merchant fire. :nope:

You're absolutely right. The intentions of such modifications, however, are also quite appropriate, since they resolve the shortcomings of the game alternatively. After the pre-war doctrine was actually also attacked almost exclusively dipped at the beginning of the war ... regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by max-peck (Post 2429877)

Just an idea Chief?

How about rather than having all the merchants armed for bear right from day one of the war, we have a plugin that starts them off with just MGs, then introduces 20mms and 40mms and proper deck guns over the next few years of the war?

And even then - maybe have a few that do not get 4 or 5 inch guns? They just get the MGs?
And alternatively we have a few very well armed from day one?

This is my thinking - please hear me out - any please bare in mind this is meant to be an Optional Plugin - I am not trying to make it part of the core mod

My reasoning:
In the stock game - you can surface pretty much whenever you want, in early war, and deck gun the hell out of merchants. You KNOW they are not going to be armed, so it is a Zero Loss proposition

Playing TMO, or FOTRSU, you KNOW that they are all well armed up pretty much from Dec 7th 1941, so you act accordingly.
OK so you have hit something with a torpedo?
Thats OK, you know they will be armed like the fourth of July, so you do not take the risk of surfacing to finish them off

Now I know and understand why Ducimus did this - US Subs did not regularly act like destroyers.
But they did on occasion surface to finish targets off

The thing I think we are missing here is uncertainty

Let me say that again

Uncertainty

That is the key thing when it comes to playability - in my opinion

Stock - I know I can surface and duke it out
TMO - I know I cannot surface to finish that merchant, because he has more guns than the NRA

How about a third option?

I am looking through the periscope at a freighter I have just torpedoed
I can maybe see some small stuff (MGs or 20mm cannons)
Is that a 4 or 5 inch deck gun at the back? I cannot quite see properly
Do I take the chance and battle surface now? Or should I stalk a bit more and use another torpedo?

To me it is all about the uncertainty

Having merchants either completely unarmed, or very well armed, all the time, takes away the uncertainty

Please let me say again - this would be an entirely optional plugin

But I am willing to give it a go

I think a little bit of uncertainty is what makes this game so good :up:

Wow! You are green lighted on the "Are You Feeling Lucky Today?" plugin mod. I like the idea of changing armnament as the war progresses. I like the uncertainty and the need to scope out your target thoroughly before you dare surface and engage with the deck gun.

Note that during the war, with most merchants not armed, but the few that were being very deadly compared to the submarine, sub commanders very very seldom surfaced and used the deck gun. Dealey on the Harder even said when asked "I don't care whether you mount my deck gun fore or aft so long as you put wheels on it so I can pitch it overboard."

So we seek deck gun action. They did not. At best it was the last ditch effort of someone who expected to die. Unless you were Fluckey on the Barb, in which case you were shelling shore targets.......:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins (Post 2429933)

Unless you were Fluckey on the Barb, in which case you were shelling shore targets.......:D

Oh yeah - that guy was crazy :up:

Shay folksh, I've uploaded two revised versions of files to the Google Drive, under WIP / Propbeanie Spreadsheets: 03SensorsCfgStudywRMSp11.xls and 05SimCfgStudywRMSp11.xls, which both include what Bleiente did in his Sensors Patch v1.1 for use with his Ralles Mod Soup, in order to modify TMO / RSRDC. There were no changes to the Contacts.cfg

I have not attempted to spreadsheet the Sensors_sub_US.sim (or the surface ships) files in anything yet, though there are changes in them all... Anybody want that? It'll take a while to do, but is do-able, if wanted...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins (Post 2429933)

"Are You Feeling Lucky Today?" plugin mod

I am totally stealing that for my own mod name :up:

May I Present to you....

KMCSHansa Classes

KMCSHansaJ=Bandoeng Maru - Japan Roster

http://i68.tinypic.com/241a555.jpg

KMCSHansa=Medium Combifreighter - German Roster

http://i68.tinypic.com/10414jm.jpg

All models fully working in museum - Both have JPN Sailors.
Ref - Stock build of the NCA_Deutschland for sailor guidence.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zibu Classes

KMCSZinbu=Medium Old Composite Merchant - American / Australia / British / Canadian Rosters with American Sailors

http://i63.tinypic.com/de3g2v.jpg

KMCSZinbuJ=Zinbu Maru - Japan Roster

http://i67.tinypic.com/1zx5a8.jpg

noice mahn... but the sun's too bright here...:hmmm: that ain't a white flag on the Zinbu Maru, but has a red meatball on it, correct?... :lol:

Are we gonna have to do "inventory" on this thread, and gather all the data and check for completion of tasks, and check the sources of ships, etc., for proper acknowledgements (and possible permissions)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2429956)

I say do it. What you're doing will be a great service for all mods to come from now on.

One thing that has always distinguished SH4 modding from other games is that our modding, with very few exceptions, has been non-proprietary, with all cards on the table, all tools available for other modders so that our specific operation benefits the modding community as a whole. That is why SH4 mods are JSGME compatible, no installer programs, no matter how big. Our mods are open for reverse engineering and learning from. We are NOT Electronic Arts with an empire to guard. We are members of an open source community where modders share and the player is in charge.
:arrgh!:

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2430038)

Yes, I'm afraid so. It's very important that we give credit to everyone who contributed. I'm absolutely certain that someone will be left out, but it won't be because we didn't do our best effort.

If we have seen further than others it is because we have stood on the shoulders of giants. And we're takin' names!

We could break new ground by giving reverse Polish credit: other than the base mod, enemy AI research, campaign genius, environmental settings, and contributing TMO ships, Ducimus didn't do much for FOTRS Ultimate.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...hanks31jr6.gif http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/roflmao2.gif

Question for you guys. What file or files holds the 3d model of the ships in SH4. Can I look at the 3d model of any ship using the S3d editor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins (Post 2430157)

... It's very important that we give credit to everyone who contributed. I'm absolutely certain that someone will be left out, but it won't be because we didn't do our best effort.

If we have seen further than others it is because we have stood on the shoulders of giants. And we're takin' names!...

I'll start on it again. I was taking notes before, in a notebook, handwritten of course, and had gotten like 20 pages in, and l lost the dad-blame notebook... oldmanitis strikes ~again~... If I didn't know better, I'd think I was old, but I'm a pup compared to the rest of you guys... tic :har:

Anyway, I wasn't doing it on the computer, because I'm at three or four machines throughout the day, but I think I'll stick with one machine for the task at hand, and just do it... What I was doing before was going through this thread only, making a short note of the proposal, task, or whatever, who did it, any responses, and the post number, along with the page number. It was beginning to look like the minutes from a business meeting... Are you wanting anymore detail than that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdrsubron7 (Post 2430186)

Question for you guys. What file or files holds the 3d model of the ships in SH4. Can I look at the 3d model of any ship using the S3d editor?

I could have sworn there was a video for this, and I do remember looking at a few ships, but for the life of me can't remember how... Try this thread, see if it's enough to jog your RAM:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138983

or else wait for some REAL help :rotfl2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie (Post 2430191)

Thanks, pb. This is scary. You've shown me the way. :huh: :up:

Are you insinuating that the blind are leading the blind, AND finding their way?... !!!???!!?!?:up: Sort of like one old guy helping another across the street... Then they both get hit by the bus... :har: