SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - [WIP] Historical Guns Specs

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- - [WIP] Historical Guns Specs (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=198510)

gap	01-11-13 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991367)

Seems like a C/30 is initially broken flak-gun.. :nope:

After all, I think our first test will be about the trav / elev tolerance factors. I wan to see if they fix this damn gun :03:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 1991349)

I would suggest that you test your missions in the campaign as this will give you full control over what you are testing.

:doh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991367)

It's hard to me.. I'm still not able to make a single mission.. too lazy to figure out how ME2 work.. :D

:sign_yeah:

but I promise one day I will put myself at it. How much do you charge for private classes, Trevally? :D

volodya61

01-11-13 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991377)

After all, I think our first test will be about the trav / elev tolerance factors. I wan to see if they fix this damn gun :03:

If I set trav/elev tolerance values to 1, will this reduce error? What do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991377)

How much do you charge for private classes, Trevally? :D

really Private classes :har:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4...ytutorials.png

Trevally.

01-11-13 02:13 PM

I can do it for you - send me your mission and let me know what date you want it to take place:up:

Trevally.

01-11-13 02:21 PM

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/114...nsualdesir.jpg

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

gap	01-11-13 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991385)

If I set trav/elev tolerance values to 1, will this reduce error? What do you think?

I have just set it to 0 (you know:I like to overdo), and I think I've discovered something new: the gun was following its target, but held fire, as if it was looking for a perfect aim before firing. :hmm2:

as their name is suggesting, the two tolerance factors are probably the angular deviation from the ideal trajectory to the target, at which the AI will think that its aim is good enough to start firing... I will carry one some more testing after dinner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 1991386)

I can do it for you - send me your mission and let me know what date you want it to take place:up:

Whatever date. I doesn't matter for me. What I would like, is having a mission for each Flak gun available as boat upgrade, and our U-boat being equipped with just one of them in each mission... :yep:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 1991389)

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

a fellow subsim member, I suppose :hmmm:

volodya61

01-11-13 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991392)

I think I've discovered something new: the gun was following its target, but held fire, as if it was looking for a perfect aim before firing. :hmm2:

just tested values 0 and 1 for both parameters (trav & elev)

0 - hold fire, but follow target
1 - no hits, all shots below the target, as in previous tests

:/\\!! :rotfl2:

gap	01-11-13 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991413)

just tested values 0 and 1 for both parameters (trav & elev)

0 - hold fire, but follow target
1 - no hits, all shots below the target, as in previous tests

:/\\!! :rotfl2:

Exactly the same here... :hmm2:

wait, I want to see what the restr_dist property (under obj_Turret => Debug) does. Setting show_restr to 'Yes' should display in game what this setting is for... or at least I hope so...

volodya61

01-11-13 06:14 PM

I'm currently translating into Russian the files for Equipment Upgrade Fix and came across the text of the special abilities.. :hmmm: how the special abilities may affect to AA-guns accuracy?

All my tests in campaign were done using the crew with the gunner's special abilities.. :hmmm:

gap	01-11-13 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991493)

I ignore it, but probably Rongel can give us some detail :up:

P.S: I've found this old post from a thread in SHIII Mods Workshop:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdre Gibs

Finally some1 else has found the DEACCURACY Tweak I have been useing on ALL Guns

This is the 1 that I have been using for ages to DEACCURTISE the DG with. Ok to explain it better.

The Traverse and Elavaion Tolarance is used to gyro stabilise the Gun. This is done by giving the gun a SET Degree of MOVEMENT that you determine BEFORE the movement of the subs hull is imposed on the Gun. So therefor IF you have given the tolarance to the guns of say 10Â° this means that the gun has 10Â° of inderpendent movement BEFORE the subs movement effects the gun. Hence to DEACCURTISE the gun you REDUCE the movement. On the DG I have been using 0.75Â° for both Elevation and Traverse, for all other Flack Guns I have been using 0.5Â°. Now what happens is that the DG can only track the target for 0.75Â° of inderpendent movment before the subs heaving is imposed on the gun, BUT this is the good part, this will SLOW down the Fire rate as the AI will NOT fire the Gun untill its ON target. It also means that they have more accurate MISS shots to btw what I mean by that is that you will get over an unders as before but now closer to the taget. With this imposed I have redone all weps and shells to reflect true values on Range, Damage and refire rates. This is the reason I always said that Beery was wrong, You CAN fix the DG!

Now go at it an enjoy

PS: Ohh btw this will also effect the player when he uses the gun's, but for best results let the AI man the guns an shoot only, after all Captains didn't go running around a sub maning every thing them selves. You have a crew, let them do their job and you do yours.

In a nutshell, if what this guy is saying proves true, the effect of the two tolerance factors is just the opposite of what we supposed so far! :rotfl2:

I think tomorrow another hard testing session is waiting for us :-?

volodya61

01-11-13 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991503)

To be honest, I have little understood from this post.. :oops:
I correctly understand that now we should increase the values rather than decrease them?

flostt

01-11-13 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 1991389)

Don't mind Helga - she comes in to clean the board for me.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

:k_rofl::Kaleun_Applaud:

V13dweller

01-11-13 11:57 PM

Want me to create the mission for you? just tell me what to do, and ill see if I can do it. :)
And a bit of info relating to the Auxiliary cruisers guns, yes, they do get them based on the year.

gap	01-12-13 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991545)

To be honest, I have little understood from this post.. :oops:
I correctly understand that now we should increase the values rather than decrease them?

Yes, it is probably written in a worst english than mine. :haha:
What I've understood is that the two tolerance settings are sort of maximum gyroscopic stabilization angles, and that they affect the guns' aim for both AI and human player. If that was true, it would imply that:

1. the higher their value, the steadier the gun, the more accurate its aim;

2. the higher the wind speed, the bigger more noticeable their effect

3. by playing with train/elevation tolerance and speed settings, we can destabilize deck and flak guns without fiddling with trickier parameters ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V13dweller (Post 1991666)

Want me to create the mission for you? just tell me what to do, and ill see if I can do it. :)
And a bit of info relating to the Auxiliary cruisers guns, yes, they do get them based on the year.

Thank you for your offer, V13dweller :up:

Right now I would be happy enough if I could test the improved C/30 and the twin C/38 flak guns in custom mission. I want to see if they are affected by the same systematic error as the "regular" C/30.

I don't know if Volodya has other requests, though :)

Rongel

01-12-13 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991503)

I ignore it, but probably Rongel can give us some detail :up:

Stock special abilities influence gunner in this way:

There are two passive abilities, boost guns and reduce reload time.

Boost guns is like this: AbilityType=GunsAccuracy, GunsDamage, GunsRange, ShellDrag, ShellSpeed ;increase gun accuracy, damage and range (in percents)
AbilityValue= 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 18, 18, 18, 18, 18, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30

So when maxed out, it gives +30 % to all aspects of gunning (if all of them work or not is a mystery to me).

Stock Reduce reload time drops the time to -50 % when at max. My special abilities mod uses -20 % value. I guess these affect both the deck gun and the AA gun.

Hope this helps!

gap	01-12-13 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongel (Post 1991725)

Thank you Rongel, it helps a lot indeed! :up:

If I didn't misunderstood your explications, they would entail that gun specific parameters (in their respective sim files), should be set for the lowest possible performance.
In any case, we will have an hard time finetuning guns specs and passive ability settings, but it is something we have to deal with, I think.

By the way: where are these settings found? :hmmm:
Do you happen to know if the crew veterancy settings in custom mission do have the same effect as passive abilities in campaign? I am induced to think so, since there are 5 ability levels in campaign and 5 veterancy levels in mission...

P.S: have you seen what I said about gun's stabilization in my previous post? I know you have fiddled a lot in an attempt to destabilize player's guns....

volodya61

01-12-13 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991724)

What I've understood is that the two tolerance settings are sort of maximum gyroscopic stabilization angles, and that they affect the guns' aim for both AI and human player. If that was true, it would imply that:
1. the higher their value, the steadier the gun, the more accurate its aim;
1. the higher the wind speed, the bigger more noticeable their effect
2. by playing with train/elevation tolerance and speed settings, we can destabilize deck and flak guns without fiddling with trickier parameters ;)

This explanation is much more clearly :yeah:

Quote:

Originally Posted by gap (Post 1991724)

I don't know if Volodya has other requests, though :)

I don't know.. You are the Chief! :up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rongel (Post 1991725)

Boost guns is like this: AbilityType=GunsAccuracy, GunsDamage, GunsRange, ShellDrag, ShellSpeed ;increase gun accuracy, damage and range (in percents)

gap	01-12-13 06:05 AM

Another parameter that could affect crew's aiming effciency:

GunsCoef, found in:

data\UPCDataGE\UPCUnitsData\UnitParts?VII?.upc (one file for each playable sub)

gap	01-12-13 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991741)

This explanation is much more clearly :yeah:

except for the fact that I messed up numbers :oops: :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 1991741)

I don't know.. You are the Chief! :up:

There are no bosses here, we are all colleagues :O:

Out of jokes, I think my work plan collapsed due to the total unreliability (or I should better say: due to the systematic inefficency) of the C30 gun we are testing, even under the most favourable conditions we could think of for it to hit its target.

From what I have seen, under the same conditions, higher caliber guns are by far more efficient (1 shot 1 hit!). If you want, you can start testing on them about the effect of different tolerance settings on their stabilization. In a matter of minutes I will send you a mission where your U-boat is fitted with two 37 mm flak guns (I don't remember which model though) and 1 flakvierling. :up:

EDIT:

here it is:

http://rapidshare.com/files/20022559...20Missions.rar

select the type VIIC/41 for your tests, and try playing with diffrent tolerance factors and wind speeds/directions. Try also adjusting crew rating, if needed. IIRC, it is currently maxed out...

Trevally.

01-12-13 06:30 AM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=61
:hmmm:

gap	01-12-13 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally. (Post 1991749)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...2&postcount=61
:hmmm:

Thank you Trev, I will have a close look at that thread! :yeah:

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