We are not lost - we still have options left. For examplew to seal off the borders and again pratcice the covereign right of soveriegnb states to decide whom from outside we let pass and whom not.

We want to be lost, by not doing this. That is the difference. instead we attack Trump over his attempt to seal the Mexican border, lecture Americans wanting to stop illegal immigration into the US. :timeout: Why don'T we help the Bulgarians and Greeks to seal off their border with Turkey? Turkey is no part of Europe and not member of the EU. That means the Bulgarian and Greek borders are the outer borders of the whole EU in that area. We should help by technology, material, and if needed border police contingents. Other European nations should do that as well, and affected border states shoulkd receoive that assistance. Instead Merkel and Tusk and others demand all others to let everybody in and to accept refugees that Germany has channeled into Europe en masse. Idiots we are. Anything to make sure these borders are tight, should be done, and then all traffic gets controlled again, like in the time before Shengen.

Like plain, healthy reason would dictate it.

We should do so with all outer borders, and the mediterranean. And we have the means to do so. What prevents us? Only our own self-restraints.

We should do like the Australians, and we should broacast the situation on sea via airwaves to the ME and Africa - so that people see how bad it is. We should have detention camps like the Australians and lioke Auistria'S Kurtz is demanding, and we should have live TV coverage of the Australian regime we run there. Does not work? The Australians disagree, their illegal immigration rate is down to below 3% of the former levels they had. They have now the situaiton that not only they can chose whiom they let in and whiom not - but that they indeed can control it and enforce their decisions to be followed.

We could do these things as well, the options all exist. We do not want to use them. That is a difference. Not being able to do something, and not wanting to do something, are not the same.

We want them to stzay away, but we are not wanting to tell them.We hope the fairy queen stops them for us, or that they stay away all by themsaelves, all of a sudden, for miraculous reasons and mysterious motivations. We could say No. But we do not want to be seen by anyone that we actually say No. We bring out this seed this seed with both hands - and our harvest will be accordingly. Idiots we are. We are not being stopped, or being prevented - we are idiots, drunk of our own self-delusions and good-doer-syndrome. Our brains are rotten from all our high flying superidealism. No neurons left to calculate reality realistically.

We can, as we almost always have done in a civilized world-discuss, debating and maybe throw words against each other, while those who have a more darken agenda keep on with their work unimpeded.

Markus

https://media.giphy.com/media/dC9DTdqPmRnlS/giphy.gif


I think you'd have more luck with the other option.

Wat.

A half troll. There is a fairly popular view the EU is the German attempt to create an Empire within Europe.

How is that different from what I wrote? I wrote we had lost when we decided not to take care of our own borders, when we decided to become passive and not do anything. Right now I would be surprised if we even had enough border security personnel to effectively guard something the size of Luxembourg. So just closing the borders might not even be possible for us at the moment as it takes years of training to get those officers in uniform.

Oh, that's what you're referring to.
Well in that case empire fits better indeed, I see no parallels to anything nazi with today's Germany and was therefore a little confused.
Naturally Germany wants a strong Europe and of course it wants to maintain its leading status. Nothing bad though, someone has to, and I somehow don't see cute Denmark doing it, though Denmark shows more guts than Germany atm.

A shame the brain dead right wing populist fear mongers all want an end to the EU, the only thing guaranteeing us peace, at least between European countries. Well, that and NATO.
Big mistake to end the EU in my opinion. It needs to be handled differently, but of course politicians weren't able to act smartly and reasonable, so now everybody's leaving the sinking ship...

I think that within that narrative 4th Reich is a fine term, as the 4th Reich would differ from the 3rd Reich the same way 3rd Reich differed from the 2nd.

From what I understand the core of that narrative is that Germany both benefits more from the EU and has a greater control over the EU than any other member state.

Good observation, you gotta know, being German, my school system tried to make me panic and hate myself whenever I hear or read about some "Reich", and sometimes it works, it seems. Lol.

And sure Germany wants maximum profit. It's a bunch of dirty politicians, no matter the country.
However, a strong EU would still be the best possible outcome in so many regards. Be it to keep Russia from annexing more eastern countries (come on, they are like Pokémon for Putin, he wants them all! :p), or keep Turkey from doing who knows what and also to counter America's absolute power. With each EU country on its own, there would be many possible dangers to global stability (which is instable already).

But Meh, this isn't really my turf, I might be off by miles.

An opinion I suspect that is gathering momentum in more European countries than simply Germany.

LINK - Report: Merkel and Rutte made concrete promises with Turkey over refugee quota

What a treacherous lying beast.

The political self-declared "elite" since long time already has established a feudal self-definition again. Peacefully this scum will not give up power, that is for certain, elections change nothing here - the scum prevails. Its names and smells vary, its automatism to stay in power remains. Already now all poltical party only represnett tiny ractions of the total electorate, none of them is even close to having somethign like a real majority. Pepel turnign away form politics don'T do that due to laziness or lacking interest, but because of getting realistically desillusionised - and also by being driven away by the stinking smells.

"In government, the scum raises to the top." A.F. Hayek.

Seal off those damn borders, all you dreamdancers of Europe. Stop cooperatio with Turkey on everything. get the Geran Tonaos out of Incirlik, and the Gerna Patriot missiles that only are there becasue Erdoghan held up a loop and wanted NATO to jump through it. The threat of Syrian air and missile attacks into Turkey never was a realistic scenario. In fact is has been qite the other way around - already since years before the Syrian conflict saw Turkey engaging.

Instead we get more German lecturing on that the Dutch "walked into a trap" and that they should have hoped instead that if they take the spanking while sitting still, Turks would not vote for Erdoghan. What a smelly, rotten, foul pseudo-logic that is.

If unwanted people storm your house and guests show up you have not invited and do not want, you do not appeal, you do not bribe them to go, you do not give them gifts in exchange for them behaving kinder, you do not smile - you call the police to throw them out, and then slam the door behind them and lock it.

http://www.dw.com/en/merkels-chief-o...try/a-37938390

After the federal state Saarland has formally banned any foreeign pllticians from cappaigning for national elections in theor cintry, the chancellor'S office has started to releaes warnign sthat the Geran govenrment cna mull such a ban nationwide, which the highest court of the coutnry has found some days ago to be in conformaity with already existing laws that indeed do a,low that.

Erdoghan'S AKP vice leader threatened to head for Germany as well, and in the coming days 16 more propaganda festivals by Turkish ministers i germany are announced, with another 10-15 such events being planned afterwards until the Turkish election.

The warning thus is just that so far: a warning, means: a verbal hint that costs nothing and binds nobody. And at the same time the German government agreed that in principle nothing speaksagainst having Turkish polling stations established in Germany.

Which, seeing all this together, to me sends another message: if Turkey only stops comparing us evil wicked Germans with Nazis, then Erdoghan can have his will in Germany as he pleases.

Why non-German Turks with idoitcally holding two passports should not travel to their wonderful homeland Turkey for casting their precious vote, or have their vote sent via mail, is beyond me. Whats next - Turkish ministries haveing branch offices set up in Germany? AKP party offices? Another palace for the Sultan? But hey, we already allow two Turkish ministries - religion and education - to massively interfere with German sovereign inner politics - on the grounds of treaties giving the Turks this right. Sovereign...?

Stupid this German habit is to so often state two detrimental opposites simultaneously and then claiming that is a "balanced approach". I call it: "avoiding to take a stand for anything, ever".

Turkish politicians by habit use the option to speak in Germany to call Turks living here to resist to integration and to not forget what country their real home is. Criticising this often triggers enragedfury of that demanding Turks to integrate is a crime against humanity.

For these reasons I am totally against double-nationalities. From some time on, you have to make a choice for either the one or the other. No cherry picking all life long. Two passports do not help integration, but absolutely hinder it.

Snapshot of German climate: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1138272.html


http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/he...format6001.jpg

"Don't allow to get provoked... don't allow to get provoked... don't allow to get provoked..."

I always assumed that allowing citizens of a foreighn country to vote in the diplomatic missions of that foreighn country for the elected officials of that foreighn country is normal.

I mean that is how Russian opposition parties get any votes - from voters in London and other such places.

Germany is no foreign country to Turkey, but a not yet-conquered province only. Europe is Islam's, Europe is the Osmans'. And Germany is Turkey's. Only the US is given so many special rights in Germany, as Turkey enjoys. Just for very different reasons. And the Americans are wise enough not to make a big story of it. But Turkey - always shouting, always balking, always, demading more, more, more. Its like this since the AKP came to power and Erdoghan took over so many years ago now. They should have shot him in jail instead of releasing him, it would have been the greatest possible service to Turkey, the Turkish people, and us. Reminds me of a little Füher problem that our ancestors once have had over here.

Well if other countries (ie Russia) can use their diplomatic missions for voting in Germany, why can't Turkey?